CSL Agenda 2016

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CSL Agenda 2016

Sebastian Karcher
Hi everyone,

Bruce, Frank, Rintze, and I met this Monday to discuss the current state of CSL. This is the first of two e-mails summarizing our discussion, which is meant as a basis for a broader discussion here on the list. In this e-mail I'll talk about CSL infrastructure, the second one will be about CSL specifications/updates.

1. Moving style hosting to www.citationstyles.org
We'd like to transition from zotero.org style ids, and offer both a GUI version of the style repository on citationstyles.org and serve styles from there (e.g. for auto-updating). We think this should be the top priority for 2016
We'll want a proper hosting solution for this and, if clients will want to rely on our site (rather than pulling from github the way Zotero & Mendeley currently do) for style updates. We also will want to hire someone to do this for us. (Elsevier/Mendeley has already announced they'll again support us, so we have a budget). Sylvester suggested someone to us, but if anyone here is interested or has recommendations, that'd be very welcome, too.
Also, for any of the downstream users of the style--will a global change in style ids cause major headaches? Is there anything we can/should do to make the transition go smoothly?

2. Moving away from sourceforge
Rintze has mentioned this before, but we'd like to look at moving away from sourceforge, which is increasingly spammy, sometimes unreliable, and of an uncertain future. We're thinking most likely www.discourse.org, with a paid hosting solution, but are open to alternatives. Also, we want to make sure that there's a way to get data out of Discourse before switching.

We won't be able to transfer the list archive to discourse easily, but it'll keep existing on nabble.com

3. Achievements & Miscellanea:
- Sylvester built us a nice bot that's currently screening pull requests and displaying greeting messages as well as pass/fail follow-ups for pull requests. It's working nicely.
- As some of you may have seen, we have, with the agreement of the folks from Mendeley and Columbia Lib, moved the CSL visual editor into the citation-style-language github and have successfully updated styles and locales. At least for now, it seems easy enough to maintain that I'll be able to handle that, thanks to Steve Ridout's great documentation and coding of that project.
- We'll also slightly reorganize repositories which contain lists of journals and styles by publishers for dependent styles and try to get these updated as soon as possible. Anyone who wants in on that (checking with publishers, tracking down new lists etc.) help would be very welcome.

OK. That's it for infrastructure I believe. Please do chime in with concerns, disagreement, praise, or other ideas/priorities.

Specification e-mail to follow later this weekend.
Best,
Sebastian

--
Sebastian Karcher, PhD
www.sebastiankarcher.com

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Re: CSL Agenda 2016

Matěj Cepl
On 2015-11-14, 05:47 GMT, Sebastian Karcher wrote:
> We won't be able to transfer the list archive to discourse
> easily, but it'll keep existing on nabble.com

Please, do not forget to update gmane.text.xml.xbiblio.devel as
well.

Best,

Matěj

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that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you.
Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a
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Re: CSL Agenda 2016

rmzelle
Administrator
Matěj, what do you mean exactly with "update
gmane.text.xml.xbiblio.devel"? Update how?

Also, is there any particular reason you're attached to the Gmane
archive? Its archive of the mailing list only goes back to 2011,
whereas the Nabble mirror goes back all the way back to 2004 (which
was done by manually uploading the mbox archive from SourceForge:
http://support.nabble.com/Import-request-td5922233.html). I'm also the
current administrator of the Nabble mirror, while I don't know who
controls the Gmane one.

Rintze

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 2:12 AM, Matěj Cepl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2015-11-14, 05:47 GMT, Sebastian Karcher wrote:
>> We won't be able to transfer the list archive to discourse
>> easily, but it'll keep existing on nabble.com
>
> Please, do not forget to update gmane.text.xml.xbiblio.devel as
> well.
>
> Best,
>
> Matěj

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Re: CSL Agenda 2016

rmzelle
Administrator
In reply to this post by Sebastian Karcher
Hi all,

(as you all might remember, as the CSL board we promised to annually
propose goals and priorities for the CSL project
(https://github.com/citation-style-language/governance/blob/master/governance.md),
so this is the start of that effort)

In addition to what Sebastian said:

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 12:47 AM, Sebastian Karcher
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1. Moving style hosting to www.citationstyles.org
> We'd like to transition from zotero.org style ids, and offer both a GUI
> version of the style repository on citationstyles.org and serve styles from
> there (e.g. for auto-updating). We think this should be the top priority for
> 2016
> We'll want a proper hosting solution for this and, if clients will want to
> rely on our site (rather than pulling from github the way Zotero & Mendeley
> currently do) for style updates. We also will want to hire someone to do
> this for us. (Elsevier/Mendeley has already announced they'll again support
> us, so we have a budget). Sylvester suggested someone to us, but if anyone
> here is interested or has recommendations, that'd be very welcome, too.
> Also, for any of the downstream users of the style--will a global change in
> style ids cause major headaches? Is there anything we can/should do to make
> the transition go smoothly?

We touched on this topic before at
http://xbiblio-devel.2463403.n2.nabble.com/call-for-comments-on-base-URI-issue-td6097469.html
and https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/issues/2

Unless anybody raises concerns, I think the way to go is to first
start hosting the current styles (with unchanged
"http://www.zotero.org/styles/*" style IDs and "self" links) via the
citationstyles.org domain with their proper CSL style MIME type
(https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/vnd.citationstyles.style+xml).
Once that is up and running we can hammer out the details on how to
change the "http://www.zotero.org/styles/*" URL scheme to something
like "http://styles.citationstyles.org/*" or
"http://repository.citationstyles.org/*" (while keeping these URLs
dereferenceable), and decide what to do about style IDs (my preference
would be to keep style IDs and "self" links in sync, like they are
now).

> 2. Moving away from sourceforge
> Rintze has mentioned this before, but we'd like to look at moving away from
> sourceforge, which is increasingly spammy, sometimes unreliable, and of an
> uncertain future. We're thinking most likely www.discourse.org, with a paid
> hosting solution, but are open to alternatives. Also, we want to make sure
> that there's a way to get data out of Discourse before switching.
>
> We won't be able to transfer the list archive to discourse easily, but it'll
> keep existing on nabble.com

With all the bad news surrounding SourceForge
(http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/07/dhi-group-plans-to-sell-off-slashdot-and-sourceforge/),
I think we should at least be prepared that they might stop hosting
mailing lists or shut down altogether.

Fortunately, SourceForge offers mbox downloads
(http://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/Mailing%20List%20Archives/).
We could either try our luck with another Mailman hosting service
(http://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services, although I had
a hard time determining which ones are reputable/reliable), or try a
different platform like Discourse (with benefits like editing of
existing posts and syntax highlighting).

It's relatively easy to set up an instance of Discourse
(http://blog.discourse.org/2014/04/install-discourse-in-under-30-minutes/),
or we could purchase hosting for $200 per year
(https://www.discoursehosting.com/). It doesn't look like it's
possible to directly import a Mailman archive into Discourse, though
(https://meta.discourse.org/t/import-mailman-archives-into-discourse/18537),
and I'm not sure Discourse can import mbox files. I also couldn't find
good information on the export options in case we'd later want to
migrate away from Discourse.

Rintze

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Re: CSL Agenda 2016

Matěj Cepl
In reply to this post by rmzelle
On 2015-11-15, 02:28 GMT, Rintze Zelle wrote:
> Matěj, what do you mean exactly with "update
> gmane.text.xml.xbiblio.devel"? Update how?

I mean if the list is moved somewhere else, somebody should let
gmane.org people know so they can retarget their server from
reading the new list. Just that nobody forgets and reminder that
there are people (like me ;)) who prefer NNTP for reading their
lists.

Matěj

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Re: CSL Agenda 2016

Matěj Cepl
In reply to this post by rmzelle
On 2015-11-15, 02:28 GMT, Rintze Zelle wrote:
> Also, is there any particular reason you're attached to the
> Gmane archive?

Also, I am not attached to the gmane as archive per se (although
it would be probably worthy to include into gmane.org the rest
of the archive as well … http://gmane.org/import.php ; is it
possible to export whole archive from nabble.com?) but I really
prefer NNTP client for processing tons of messages I read every
day (see the User-Agent header of this message).  Does nabble
provide NNTP bidirectional gateway as well?

Best,

Matěj

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Re: CSL Agenda 2016

rmzelle
Administrator
In reply to this post by Matěj Cepl
Ah, okay. We'll keep it in mind if we start hosting the mailing list
elsewhere, although if we switch to a more forum-based platform like
Discourse that most probably wouldn't work.

I'll also contact Gmane regarding importing the pre-2011 emails (we
can grab those directly from SourceForge as an mbox file).

Rintze

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Matěj Cepl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2015-11-15, 02:28 GMT, Rintze Zelle wrote:
>> Matěj, what do you mean exactly with "update
>> gmane.text.xml.xbiblio.devel"? Update how?
>
> I mean if the list is moved somewhere else, somebody should let
> gmane.org people know so they can retarget their server from
> reading the new list. Just that nobody forgets and reminder that
> there are people (like me ;)) who prefer NNTP for reading their
> lists.
>
> Matěj
>
> --
> http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: [hidden email]
> GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
>
> The first mistake in publick business, is the going into it.
>   -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>
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