Citation Style Editor prototype

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Citation Style Editor prototype

Steve Ridout-2
Hello everyone,

Lately I've been working on the CSL editor project, which is being managed by Jeffery Lancaster and Ian Mulvany.

We've now got a working prototype which gives an idea of the direction we're going with this, you can try it out here:



Thanks to recent work on citeproc-js by Frank Bennett, it allows the user to identify the relevant part of the CSL style by hovering over the formatted output.

I'm posting here to get some feedback, but please bear in mind it's in the early stages and we are more interested in discussing the overall approach rather than little bugs. To avoid too many obvious comments here are some known problems:

- Only tested with latest Chrome and Firefox
- UI looks and feels clunky 
- Tree view (jstree) drag and drop behavior is sometimes strange
- Don't have mapping from every output character to CSL node, and vice vera, not from every CSL node to output. There's room for improvement here, but Frank says it's difficult to achieve 100% coverage.
- Not enough example citations
- Code editor sometimes wrongly highlights nodes in red
- Comments are stripped from imported CSL files
- Should have interactive highlight when hovering over the CSL tree too

We have definite plans for the following:

- Allow user to modify the example documents, and provide a larger set of built in examples.

- Only allow CSL schema validating styles. e.g. instead of text boxes for attribute names, use combo boxes populated with data from the csl.rng file. If anyone has advice on parsing the .rng with javascript please let me know.

Here are possible ideas for future work:

- Simplify/clean up tree view heirachy. At the moment it exactly maps the CSL XML. I think there's scope for simplifying this view whilst internally keeping the CSL structure. If we did this, we should allow switching back and fore between the actual CSL structure.
e.g. (just thinking)
  - put macros inside a 'macros' node to avoid cluttering the interface.
  - try removing the leaf nodes from 'info' and 'author' and use more friendly GUI controls in the property panel instead.
  - place 'symlinks' within <text macro=""> nodes to the relevant macro

- Allow construction of styles using a database of all macros extracted from the repository as building blocks.

- Allow user to specify desired textual output of the example documents, to be used as unit tests for that style. This could be pre populated for users arriving from 'search by example'. The editor would show an error and the relevant diff if the style fails to match.

- Import and export of styles. We want an easy way to import and export styles to and from ref managers. I think providing online storage and resolvable URLs for all edited styles would be ideal, but is probably beyond the scope of this project.

Look forward to hearing your comments!

Steve

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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Bruce D'Arcus-3
I'll look at this later in depth later, but I'll ask a basic question:
where, ideally (irrespective of time/resource constraints), would you
like to see this end up?

E.g. let's say you have some Mendeley user who needs a style for
"Journal X", and it's not returned by a name search.

Let's also assume they're not the most technically savvy user.

What's their path to a finished, activated, style they can use?

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Lately I've been working on the CSL editor project, which is being managed
> by Jeffery Lancaster and Ian Mulvany.
>
> We've now got a working prototype which gives an idea of the direction we're
> going with this, you can try it out here:
>
> steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor
>
> And the code is all on
> github: https://github.com/citation-style-editor/csl-editor
>
> Thanks to recent work on citeproc-js by Frank Bennett, it allows the user to
> identify the relevant part of the CSL style by hovering over the formatted
> output.
>
> I'm posting here to get some feedback, but please bear in mind it's in the
> early stages and we are more interested in discussing the overall approach
> rather than little bugs. To avoid too many obvious comments here are some
> known problems:
>
> - Only tested with latest Chrome and Firefox
> - UI looks and feels clunky
> - Tree view (jstree) drag and drop behavior is sometimes strange
> - Don't have mapping from every output character to CSL node, and vice vera,
> not from every CSL node to output. There's room for improvement here, but
> Frank says it's difficult to achieve 100% coverage.
> - Not enough example citations
> - Code editor sometimes wrongly highlights nodes in red
> - Comments are stripped from imported CSL files
> - Should have interactive highlight when hovering over the CSL tree too
>
> We have definite plans for the following:
>
> - Allow user to modify the example documents, and provide a larger set of
> built in examples.
>
> - Only allow CSL schema validating styles. e.g. instead of text boxes for
> attribute names, use combo boxes populated with data from the csl.rng file.
> If anyone has advice on parsing the .rng with javascript please let me know.
>
> Here are possible ideas for future work:
>
> - Simplify/clean up tree view heirachy. At the moment it exactly maps the
> CSL XML. I think there's scope for simplifying this view whilst internally
> keeping the CSL structure. If we did this, we should allow switching back
> and fore between the actual CSL structure.
> e.g. (just thinking)
>   - put macros inside a 'macros' node to avoid cluttering the interface.
>   - try removing the leaf nodes from 'info' and 'author' and use more
> friendly GUI controls in the property panel instead.
>   - place 'symlinks' within <text macro=""> nodes to the relevant macro
>
> - Allow construction of styles using a database of all macros extracted from
> the repository as building blocks.
>
> - Allow user to specify desired textual output of the example documents, to
> be used as unit tests for that style. This could be pre populated for users
> arriving from 'search by example'. The editor would show an error and the
> relevant diff if the style fails to match.
>
> - Import and export of styles. We want an easy way to import and export
> styles to and from ref managers. I think providing online storage and
> resolvable URLs for all edited styles would be ideal, but is probably beyond
> the scope of this project.
>
> Look forward to hearing your comments!
>
> Steve
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF email is sponsosred by:
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>

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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Steve Ridout-2
On 30 March 2012 15:06, Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'll look at this later in depth later, but I'll ask a basic question:
where, ideally (irrespective of time/resource constraints), would you
like to see this end up?

E.g. let's say you have some Mendeley user who needs a style for
"Journal X", and it's not returned by a name search.

Let's also assume they're not the most technically savvy user.

What's their path to a finished, activated, style they can use?


Basically this:

- Name search
- Advanced search. e.g. the 'search by example', ideally made more user friendly with autocompletion of fields.

If a style was found which is close to the desired one:

- Open the Visual Editor so that the style can be tweaked.

If search couldn't find anything useful:

- Either:
-- a: Open a blank style in the Visual Editor. Hopefully starting a style from scratch won't be so intimidating if the user can draw upon a library of macros to use as building blocks.
-- b: Open a wizard tool, to set up the basic structure of the style, and open this in the Visual Editor.

Whether or not a wizard is preferable may be easier to decide once we get some testing with a more mature version of the editor.

- Export/store the edited style for use in your ref manager of choice (ideally hosted online with a permanently resolvable URL so that documents can be shared easily). In the short term, I'm open to opinions from Zotero, Papers and Mendeley for the best way to import/export edited styles.

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Lately I've been working on the CSL editor project, which is being managed
> by Jeffery Lancaster and Ian Mulvany.
>
> We've now got a working prototype which gives an idea of the direction we're
> going with this, you can try it out here:
>
> steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor
>
> And the code is all on
> github: https://github.com/citation-style-editor/csl-editor
>
> Thanks to recent work on citeproc-js by Frank Bennett, it allows the user to
> identify the relevant part of the CSL style by hovering over the formatted
> output.
>
> I'm posting here to get some feedback, but please bear in mind it's in the
> early stages and we are more interested in discussing the overall approach
> rather than little bugs. To avoid too many obvious comments here are some
> known problems:
>
> - Only tested with latest Chrome and Firefox
> - UI looks and feels clunky
> - Tree view (jstree) drag and drop behavior is sometimes strange
> - Don't have mapping from every output character to CSL node, and vice vera,
> not from every CSL node to output. There's room for improvement here, but
> Frank says it's difficult to achieve 100% coverage.
> - Not enough example citations
> - Code editor sometimes wrongly highlights nodes in red
> - Comments are stripped from imported CSL files
> - Should have interactive highlight when hovering over the CSL tree too
>
> We have definite plans for the following:
>
> - Allow user to modify the example documents, and provide a larger set of
> built in examples.
>
> - Only allow CSL schema validating styles. e.g. instead of text boxes for
> attribute names, use combo boxes populated with data from the csl.rng file.
> If anyone has advice on parsing the .rng with javascript please let me know.
>
> Here are possible ideas for future work:
>
> - Simplify/clean up tree view heirachy. At the moment it exactly maps the
> CSL XML. I think there's scope for simplifying this view whilst internally
> keeping the CSL structure. If we did this, we should allow switching back
> and fore between the actual CSL structure.
> e.g. (just thinking)
>   - put macros inside a 'macros' node to avoid cluttering the interface.
>   - try removing the leaf nodes from 'info' and 'author' and use more
> friendly GUI controls in the property panel instead.
>   - place 'symlinks' within <text macro=""> nodes to the relevant macro
>
> - Allow construction of styles using a database of all macros extracted from
> the repository as building blocks.
>
> - Allow user to specify desired textual output of the example documents, to
> be used as unit tests for that style. This could be pre populated for users
> arriving from 'search by example'. The editor would show an error and the
> relevant diff if the style fails to match.
>
> - Import and export of styles. We want an easy way to import and export
> styles to and from ref managers. I think providing online storage and
> resolvable URLs for all edited styles would be ideal, but is probably beyond
> the scope of this project.
>
> Look forward to hearing your comments!
>
> Steve
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF email is sponsosred by:
> Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure
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> xbiblio-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>

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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Sebastian Karcher
In reply to this post by Steve Ridout-2
I like a lot of this. The example view is great and we could probably
use that to direct users to similar style in the very near future. I
know you want to add more example, but as a quick enhancement, I'd
suggest to add locators - i.e. make the example (Einstein, 1905, pp.
23-47) - the way locators are separated from the citation and whether
or not they have a label is a common variation especially in
author-date styles.

I haven't had a lot of time yet to play with the tree view. My first
impression is that I imagine it to be a bit intimidating for the
uninitiated. I know what all the "macro" "substitute" "choose" etc.
means - but I would guess that it would freak out someone who has
never seen a CSL style. But maybe I'm missing the way you envision how
this is going to be used.

Anyway - exciting to see this moving along, congratulations.
Sebastian

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Lately I've been working on the CSL editor project, which is being managed
> by Jeffery Lancaster and Ian Mulvany.
>
> We've now got a working prototype which gives an idea of the direction we're
> going with this, you can try it out here:
>
> steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor
>
> And the code is all on
> github: https://github.com/citation-style-editor/csl-editor
>
> Thanks to recent work on citeproc-js by Frank Bennett, it allows the user to
> identify the relevant part of the CSL style by hovering over the formatted
> output.
>
> I'm posting here to get some feedback, but please bear in mind it's in the
> early stages and we are more interested in discussing the overall approach
> rather than little bugs. To avoid too many obvious comments here are some
> known problems:
>
> - Only tested with latest Chrome and Firefox
> - UI looks and feels clunky
> - Tree view (jstree) drag and drop behavior is sometimes strange
> - Don't have mapping from every output character to CSL node, and vice vera,
> not from every CSL node to output. There's room for improvement here, but
> Frank says it's difficult to achieve 100% coverage.
> - Not enough example citations
> - Code editor sometimes wrongly highlights nodes in red
> - Comments are stripped from imported CSL files
> - Should have interactive highlight when hovering over the CSL tree too
>
> We have definite plans for the following:
>
> - Allow user to modify the example documents, and provide a larger set of
> built in examples.
>
> - Only allow CSL schema validating styles. e.g. instead of text boxes for
> attribute names, use combo boxes populated with data from the csl.rng file.
> If anyone has advice on parsing the .rng with javascript please let me know.
>
> Here are possible ideas for future work:
>
> - Simplify/clean up tree view heirachy. At the moment it exactly maps the
> CSL XML. I think there's scope for simplifying this view whilst internally
> keeping the CSL structure. If we did this, we should allow switching back
> and fore between the actual CSL structure.
> e.g. (just thinking)
>   - put macros inside a 'macros' node to avoid cluttering the interface.
>   - try removing the leaf nodes from 'info' and 'author' and use more
> friendly GUI controls in the property panel instead.
>   - place 'symlinks' within <text macro=""> nodes to the relevant macro
>
> - Allow construction of styles using a database of all macros extracted from
> the repository as building blocks.
>
> - Allow user to specify desired textual output of the example documents, to
> be used as unit tests for that style. This could be pre populated for users
> arriving from 'search by example'. The editor would show an error and the
> relevant diff if the style fails to match.
>
> - Import and export of styles. We want an easy way to import and export
> styles to and from ref managers. I think providing online storage and
> resolvable URLs for all edited styles would be ideal, but is probably beyond
> the scope of this project.
>
> Look forward to hearing your comments!
>
> Steve
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF email is sponsosred by:
> Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure
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> xbiblio-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>



--
------
Sebastian Karcher
Ph.D. Candidate
Department of Political Science
Northwestern University

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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Bruce D'Arcus-3
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Sebastian Karcher
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I haven't had a lot of time yet to play with the tree view. My first
> impression is that I imagine it to be a bit intimidating for the
> uninitiated. I know what all the "macro" "substitute" "choose" etc.
> means - but I would guess that it would freak out someone who has
> never seen a CSL style. But maybe I'm missing the way you envision how
> this is going to be used.

This is my hunch as well. It's a direct representation of what is
effectively a fairly abstract language.

Bruce

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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Bruce D'Arcus-3
In reply to this post by Steve Ridout-2
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 30 March 2012 15:06, Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'll look at this later in depth later, but I'll ask a basic question:
>> where, ideally (irrespective of time/resource constraints), would you
>> like to see this end up?
>>
>> E.g. let's say you have some Mendeley user who needs a style for
>> "Journal X", and it's not returned by a name search.
>>
>> Let's also assume they're not the most technically savvy user.
>>
>> What's their path to a finished, activated, style they can use?
>>
>
> Basically this:
>
> - Name search
> - Advanced search. e.g. the 'search by example', ideally made more user
> friendly with autocompletion of fields.
>
> If a style was found which is close to the desired one:
>
> - Open the Visual Editor so that the style can be tweaked.

OK. Makes sense.

Given the number of styles we have, I expect this to be the vastly
more common case, and so suggest optimizing for it.

> If search couldn't find anything useful:
>
> - Either:
> -- a: Open a blank style in the Visual Editor. Hopefully starting a style
> from scratch won't be so intimidating if the user can draw upon a library of
> macros to use as building blocks.
> -- b: Open a wizard tool, to set up the basic structure of the style, and
> open this in the Visual Editor.

So these might be a layer on top of the Visual Editor, so feasible
newbies wouldn't need to see the latter?

> Whether or not a wizard is preferable may be easier to decide once we get
> some testing with a more mature version of the editor.
>
> - Export/store the edited style for use in your ref manager of choice
> (ideally hosted online with a permanently resolvable URL so that documents
> can be shared easily). In the short term, I'm open to opinions from Zotero,
> Papers and Mendeley for the best way to import/export edited styles.

I'll just repeat my previous suggestion that the way Zotero does this
is ideal: one click and it's ready. So no downloading, moving files
around, etc.

Bruce

>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > Lately I've been working on the CSL editor project, which is being
>> > managed
>> > by Jeffery Lancaster and Ian Mulvany.
>> >
>> > We've now got a working prototype which gives an idea of the direction
>> > we're
>> > going with this, you can try it out here:
>> >
>> > steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor
>> >
>> > And the code is all on
>> > github: https://github.com/citation-style-editor/csl-editor
>> >
>> > Thanks to recent work on citeproc-js by Frank Bennett, it allows the
>> > user to
>> > identify the relevant part of the CSL style by hovering over the
>> > formatted
>> > output.
>> >
>> > I'm posting here to get some feedback, but please bear in mind it's in
>> > the
>> > early stages and we are more interested in discussing the overall
>> > approach
>> > rather than little bugs. To avoid too many obvious comments here are
>> > some
>> > known problems:
>> >
>> > - Only tested with latest Chrome and Firefox
>> > - UI looks and feels clunky
>> > - Tree view (jstree) drag and drop behavior is sometimes strange
>> > - Don't have mapping from every output character to CSL node, and vice
>> > vera,
>> > not from every CSL node to output. There's room for improvement here,
>> > but
>> > Frank says it's difficult to achieve 100% coverage.
>> > - Not enough example citations
>> > - Code editor sometimes wrongly highlights nodes in red
>> > - Comments are stripped from imported CSL files
>> > - Should have interactive highlight when hovering over the CSL tree too
>> >
>> > We have definite plans for the following:
>> >
>> > - Allow user to modify the example documents, and provide a larger set
>> > of
>> > built in examples.
>> >
>> > - Only allow CSL schema validating styles. e.g. instead of text boxes
>> > for
>> > attribute names, use combo boxes populated with data from the csl.rng
>> > file.
>> > If anyone has advice on parsing the .rng with javascript please let me
>> > know.
>> >
>> > Here are possible ideas for future work:
>> >
>> > - Simplify/clean up tree view heirachy. At the moment it exactly maps
>> > the
>> > CSL XML. I think there's scope for simplifying this view whilst
>> > internally
>> > keeping the CSL structure. If we did this, we should allow switching
>> > back
>> > and fore between the actual CSL structure.
>> > e.g. (just thinking)
>> >   - put macros inside a 'macros' node to avoid cluttering the interface.
>> >   - try removing the leaf nodes from 'info' and 'author' and use more
>> > friendly GUI controls in the property panel instead.
>> >   - place 'symlinks' within <text macro=""> nodes to the relevant macro
>> >
>> > - Allow construction of styles using a database of all macros extracted
>> > from
>> > the repository as building blocks.
>> >
>> > - Allow user to specify desired textual output of the example documents,
>> > to
>> > be used as unit tests for that style. This could be pre populated for
>> > users
>> > arriving from 'search by example'. The editor would show an error and
>> > the
>> > relevant diff if the style fails to match.
>> >
>> > - Import and export of styles. We want an easy way to import and export
>> > styles to and from ref managers. I think providing online storage and
>> > resolvable URLs for all edited styles would be ideal, but is probably
>> > beyond
>> > the scope of this project.
>> >
>> > Look forward to hearing your comments!
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > This SF email is sponsosred by:
>> > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here
>> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > xbiblio-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>> >
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Steve Ridout-2


On 30 March 2012 17:22, Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 30 March 2012 15:06, Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'll look at this later in depth later, but I'll ask a basic question:
>> where, ideally (irrespective of time/resource constraints), would you
>> like to see this end up?
>>
>> E.g. let's say you have some Mendeley user who needs a style for
>> "Journal X", and it's not returned by a name search.
>>
>> Let's also assume they're not the most technically savvy user.
>>
>> What's their path to a finished, activated, style they can use?
>>
>
> Basically this:
>
> - Name search
> - Advanced search. e.g. the 'search by example', ideally made more user
> friendly with autocompletion of fields.
>
> If a style was found which is close to the desired one:
>
> - Open the Visual Editor so that the style can be tweaked.

OK. Makes sense.

Given the number of styles we have, I expect this to be the vastly
more common case, and so suggest optimizing for it.


I agree
 
> If search couldn't find anything useful:
>
> - Either:
> -- a: Open a blank style in the Visual Editor. Hopefully starting a style
> from scratch won't be so intimidating if the user can draw upon a library of
> macros to use as building blocks.
> -- b: Open a wizard tool, to set up the basic structure of the style, and
> open this in the Visual Editor.

So these might be a layer on top of the Visual Editor, so feasible
newbies wouldn't need to see the latter?

Could be, but right now I'm not convinced we could make something flexible enough to create a complete style without exposing the user to the fully featured editor.
 

> Whether or not a wizard is preferable may be easier to decide once we get
> some testing with a more mature version of the editor.
>
> - Export/store the edited style for use in your ref manager of choice
> (ideally hosted online with a permanently resolvable URL so that documents
> can be shared easily). In the short term, I'm open to opinions from Zotero,
> Papers and Mendeley for the best way to import/export edited styles.

I'll just repeat my previous suggestion that the way Zotero does this
is ideal: one click and it's ready. So no downloading, moving files
around, etc.


Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom style between different machines and users easily? I know that Mendeley doesn't at the moment.

If we postpone the sharing issue for the time being, at the least we need to implement:

1. A way to get the styles from the editor into a ref manager. The ref manager should check the style id and style name doesn't conflict with an existing style act accordingly.
2. A way to get the edited styles back from a ref manager into the editor.

Bruce

>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > Lately I've been working on the CSL editor project, which is being
>> > managed
>> > by Jeffery Lancaster and Ian Mulvany.
>> >
>> > We've now got a working prototype which gives an idea of the direction
>> > we're
>> > going with this, you can try it out here:
>> >
>> > steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor
>> >
>> > And the code is all on
>> > github: https://github.com/citation-style-editor/csl-editor
>> >
>> > Thanks to recent work on citeproc-js by Frank Bennett, it allows the
>> > user to
>> > identify the relevant part of the CSL style by hovering over the
>> > formatted
>> > output.
>> >
>> > I'm posting here to get some feedback, but please bear in mind it's in
>> > the
>> > early stages and we are more interested in discussing the overall
>> > approach
>> > rather than little bugs. To avoid too many obvious comments here are
>> > some
>> > known problems:
>> >
>> > - Only tested with latest Chrome and Firefox
>> > - UI looks and feels clunky
>> > - Tree view (jstree) drag and drop behavior is sometimes strange
>> > - Don't have mapping from every output character to CSL node, and vice
>> > vera,
>> > not from every CSL node to output. There's room for improvement here,
>> > but
>> > Frank says it's difficult to achieve 100% coverage.
>> > - Not enough example citations
>> > - Code editor sometimes wrongly highlights nodes in red
>> > - Comments are stripped from imported CSL files
>> > - Should have interactive highlight when hovering over the CSL tree too
>> >
>> > We have definite plans for the following:
>> >
>> > - Allow user to modify the example documents, and provide a larger set
>> > of
>> > built in examples.
>> >
>> > - Only allow CSL schema validating styles. e.g. instead of text boxes
>> > for
>> > attribute names, use combo boxes populated with data from the csl.rng
>> > file.
>> > If anyone has advice on parsing the .rng with javascript please let me
>> > know.
>> >
>> > Here are possible ideas for future work:
>> >
>> > - Simplify/clean up tree view heirachy. At the moment it exactly maps
>> > the
>> > CSL XML. I think there's scope for simplifying this view whilst
>> > internally
>> > keeping the CSL structure. If we did this, we should allow switching
>> > back
>> > and fore between the actual CSL structure.
>> > e.g. (just thinking)
>> >   - put macros inside a 'macros' node to avoid cluttering the interface.
>> >   - try removing the leaf nodes from 'info' and 'author' and use more
>> > friendly GUI controls in the property panel instead.
>> >   - place 'symlinks' within <text macro=""> nodes to the relevant macro
>> >
>> > - Allow construction of styles using a database of all macros extracted
>> > from
>> > the repository as building blocks.
>> >
>> > - Allow user to specify desired textual output of the example documents,
>> > to
>> > be used as unit tests for that style. This could be pre populated for
>> > users
>> > arriving from 'search by example'. The editor would show an error and
>> > the
>> > relevant diff if the style fails to match.
>> >
>> > - Import and export of styles. We want an easy way to import and export
>> > styles to and from ref managers. I think providing online storage and
>> > resolvable URLs for all edited styles would be ideal, but is probably
>> > beyond
>> > the scope of this project.
>> >
>> > Look forward to hearing your comments!
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >
>>
>>
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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Steve Ridout-2
In reply to this post by Sebastian Karcher
On 30 March 2012 16:59, Sebastian Karcher <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like a lot of this. The example view is great and we could probably
use that to direct users to similar style in the very near future. I
know you want to add more example, but as a quick enhancement, I'd
suggest to add locators - i.e. make the example (Einstein, 1905, pp.
23-47) - the way locators are separated from the citation and whether
or not they have a label is a common variation especially in
author-date styles.

I'll work on a way to switch between examples soon and will incorporate the suggestion, thanks.
 

I haven't had a lot of time yet to play with the tree view. My first
impression is that I imagine it to be a bit intimidating for the
uninitiated. I know what all the "macro" "substitute" "choose" etc.
means - but I would guess that it would freak out someone who has
never seen a CSL style. But maybe I'm missing the way you envision how
this is going to be used.


I agree, currently it's way too intimidating. Some ways I plan to improve it:

1. Get the current view, which mirrors the CSL, working smoothly and to constrain it to the CSL schema. This will help a lot since the user won't be allowed to create any new attribute, but will have all the attributes there ready to play with and see what happens in the output.

2. Think about provide an alternative tree view which is restructured to be more intuitive. This is no more than a vauge idea at present, but I have a feeling there be a way to re-structure the heirachy, re-name some the attributes, and design some nice GUI tools for the properties of some nodes to be more user friendly.

3. Build help documentation into the tool via tooltips or links to the appropriate part of http://citationstyles.org/downloads/specification.html.

4. Try to utilize the macros from the existing styles to use as building blocks.

5. Get feedback from real first time users. The prospect of this is quite scary at the moment :-)

Anyway - exciting to see this moving along, congratulations.
Sebastian

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Lately I've been working on the CSL editor project, which is being managed
> by Jeffery Lancaster and Ian Mulvany.
>
> We've now got a working prototype which gives an idea of the direction we're
> going with this, you can try it out here:
>
> steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor
>
> And the code is all on
> github: https://github.com/citation-style-editor/csl-editor
>
> Thanks to recent work on citeproc-js by Frank Bennett, it allows the user to
> identify the relevant part of the CSL style by hovering over the formatted
> output.
>
> I'm posting here to get some feedback, but please bear in mind it's in the
> early stages and we are more interested in discussing the overall approach
> rather than little bugs. To avoid too many obvious comments here are some
> known problems:
>
> - Only tested with latest Chrome and Firefox
> - UI looks and feels clunky
> - Tree view (jstree) drag and drop behavior is sometimes strange
> - Don't have mapping from every output character to CSL node, and vice vera,
> not from every CSL node to output. There's room for improvement here, but
> Frank says it's difficult to achieve 100% coverage.
> - Not enough example citations
> - Code editor sometimes wrongly highlights nodes in red
> - Comments are stripped from imported CSL files
> - Should have interactive highlight when hovering over the CSL tree too
>
> We have definite plans for the following:
>
> - Allow user to modify the example documents, and provide a larger set of
> built in examples.
>
> - Only allow CSL schema validating styles. e.g. instead of text boxes for
> attribute names, use combo boxes populated with data from the csl.rng file.
> If anyone has advice on parsing the .rng with javascript please let me know.
>
> Here are possible ideas for future work:
>
> - Simplify/clean up tree view heirachy. At the moment it exactly maps the
> CSL XML. I think there's scope for simplifying this view whilst internally
> keeping the CSL structure. If we did this, we should allow switching back
> and fore between the actual CSL structure.
> e.g. (just thinking)
>   - put macros inside a 'macros' node to avoid cluttering the interface.
>   - try removing the leaf nodes from 'info' and 'author' and use more
> friendly GUI controls in the property panel instead.
>   - place 'symlinks' within <text macro=""> nodes to the relevant macro
>
> - Allow construction of styles using a database of all macros extracted from
> the repository as building blocks.
>
> - Allow user to specify desired textual output of the example documents, to
> be used as unit tests for that style. This could be pre populated for users
> arriving from 'search by example'. The editor would show an error and the
> relevant diff if the style fails to match.
>
> - Import and export of styles. We want an easy way to import and export
> styles to and from ref managers. I think providing online storage and
> resolvable URLs for all edited styles would be ideal, but is probably beyond
> the scope of this project.
>
> Look forward to hearing your comments!
>
> Steve
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF email is sponsosred by:
> Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure
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>



--
------
Sebastian Karcher
Ph.D. Candidate
Department of Political Science
Northwestern University

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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Sebastian Karcher
In reply to this post by Steve Ridout-2
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
> style between different machines and users easily? I know that Mendeley
> doesn't at the moment.

neither does Zotero.

--------
Sebastian Karcher
Ph.D. Candidate
Department of Political Science
Northwestern University

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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Robert Knight
> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
> style between different machines and users easily?

Giving all created styles an ID which doubles as a URL from which the
style can be fetched, so they could
work in the same way as existing styles and be automatically
downloaded by clients if necessary, seems like
the obvious option.  The 1-click install can just be a link to this
URL - possibly converted to a tool-appropriate
link (Mendeley registers itself as a handler for mendeley:// links and
I believe Zotero and Papers both have a similar facility).

So for the style ID/URL, something like:
http://citationstyles.org/styles/<prefix>/<style name>

Where <prefix> is some prefix assigned to all styles created with the
tool and <style name> is
some name assigned by the user (from an alphabetic limited to letters,
numbers and hyphens).

The main question then is whether/how to handle updates and
authentication.  Zotero and Mendeley both
have online accounts that could be used as identities for this purpose
and I presumably Papers must have one for Livfe as well.

Regards,
Rob.

On 30 March 2012 18:00, Sebastian Karcher <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
>> style between different machines and users easily? I know that Mendeley
>> doesn't at the moment.
>
> neither does Zotero.
>
> --------
> Sebastian Karcher
> Ph.D. Candidate
> Department of Political Science
> Northwestern University
>
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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Bruce D'Arcus-3
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Robert Knight
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
>> style between different machines and users easily?
>
> Giving all created styles an ID which doubles as a URL from which the
> style can be fetched, so they could
> work in the same way as existing styles and be automatically
> downloaded by clients if necessary, seems like
> the obvious option.  The 1-click install can just be a link to this
> URL - possibly converted to a tool-appropriate
> link (Mendeley registers itself as a handler for mendeley:// links and
> I believe Zotero and Papers both have a similar facility).
>
> So for the style ID/URL, something like:
> http://citationstyles.org/styles/<prefix>/<style name>
>
> Where <prefix> is some prefix assigned to all styles created with the
> tool and <style name> is
> some name assigned by the user (from an alphabetic limited to letters,
> numbers and hyphens).

On first glance, I like this.

> The main question then is whether/how to handle updates and
> authentication.

Authentication? You mean to create and submit styles?

Bruce

> Zotero and Mendeley both
> have online accounts that could be used as identities for this purpose
> and I presumably Papers must have one for Livfe as well.
>
> Regards,
> Rob.
>
> On 30 March 2012 18:00, Sebastian Karcher <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
>>> style between different machines and users easily? I know that Mendeley
>>> doesn't at the moment.
>>
>> neither does Zotero.
>>
>> --------
>> Sebastian Karcher
>> Ph.D. Candidate
>> Department of Political Science
>> Northwestern University
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Charles Parnot
Very interesting, thanks for the shout-out on this early prototype. I'll be following the development as well, but at the moment, don't have comments.

Regarding Papers, on the Mac, we are planning to add proper support for loading 'csl' files into Papers 2.2 by simple drag-and-drop. Nothing extraordinary, we just need to handle the file type appropriately. But that makes it easy to load a CSL file into Papers, as one can simply use e.g. the command-line `open` command, or from a Cocoa app, use the LaunchServices APIs. The command `open` is for instance:

open -a Papers /path/to/some-style.csl

Thanks,

Charles


On Mar 30, 2012, at 7:25 PM, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Robert Knight
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
>>> style between different machines and users easily?
>>
>> Giving all created styles an ID which doubles as a URL from which the
>> style can be fetched, so they could
>> work in the same way as existing styles and be automatically
>> downloaded by clients if necessary, seems like
>> the obvious option.  The 1-click install can just be a link to this
>> URL - possibly converted to a tool-appropriate
>> link (Mendeley registers itself as a handler for mendeley:// links and
>> I believe Zotero and Papers both have a similar facility).
>>
>> So for the style ID/URL, something like:
>> http://citationstyles.org/styles/<prefix>/<style name>
>>
>> Where <prefix> is some prefix assigned to all styles created with the
>> tool and <style name> is
>> some name assigned by the user (from an alphabetic limited to letters,
>> numbers and hyphens).
>
> On first glance, I like this.
>
>> The main question then is whether/how to handle updates and
>> authentication.
>
> Authentication? You mean to create and submit styles?
>
> Bruce
>
>> Zotero and Mendeley both
>> have online accounts that could be used as identities for this purpose
>> and I presumably Papers must have one for Livfe as well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob.
>>
>> On 30 March 2012 18:00, Sebastian Karcher <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
>>>> style between different machines and users easily? I know that Mendeley
>>>> doesn't at the moment.
>>>
>>> neither does Zotero.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Sebastian Karcher
>>> Ph.D. Candidate
>>> Department of Political Science
>>> Northwestern University
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Bruce D'Arcus-3
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Charles Parnot <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Very interesting, thanks for the shout-out on this early prototype. I'll be following the development as well, but at the moment, don't have comments.
>
> Regarding Papers, on the Mac, we are planning to add proper support for loading 'csl' files into Papers 2.2 by simple drag-and-drop. Nothing extraordinary, we just need to handle the file type appropriately. But that makes it easy to load a CSL file into Papers, as one can simply use e.g. the command-line `open` command, or from a Cocoa app, use the LaunchServices APIs. The command `open` is for instance:
>
> open -a Papers /path/to/some-style.csl

Is there any reason it shouldn't just be possible to click on a link
on a web repository, and have it correctly installed?

That's always been my vision, and I don't want to let it go if I can help it :-)

Bruce

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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Charles Parnot
Ah, ha, yes, that too… sort of ;-) you can use the Papers bookmarklet on a URL for a CSl file. Since we ship all the styles from the CSL repository, though, the main workflow is to add a new CSL file to the user's styles.


On Apr 1, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Charles Parnot <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Very interesting, thanks for the shout-out on this early prototype. I'll be following the development as well, but at the moment, don't have comments.
>>
>> Regarding Papers, on the Mac, we are planning to add proper support for loading 'csl' files into Papers 2.2 by simple drag-and-drop. Nothing extraordinary, we just need to handle the file type appropriately. But that makes it easy to load a CSL file into Papers, as one can simply use e.g. the command-line `open` command, or from a Cocoa app, use the LaunchServices APIs. The command `open` is for instance:
>>
>> open -a Papers /path/to/some-style.csl
>
> Is there any reason it shouldn't just be possible to click on a link
> on a web repository, and have it correctly installed?
>
> That's always been my vision, and I don't want to let it go if I can help it :-)
>
> Bruce
>
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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Bruce D'Arcus-3
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Charles Parnot <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ah, ha, yes, that too… sort of ;-) you can use the Papers bookmarklet on a URL for a CSl file. Since we ship all the styles from the CSL repository, though, the main workflow is to add a new CSL file to the user's styles.

Right, but I'm still hoping to see CSL evolve to where
journals/publishers start to host their own styles.

Also, how do you deal with updating styles?

Bruce

> On Apr 1, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Charles Parnot <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Very interesting, thanks for the shout-out on this early prototype. I'll be following the development as well, but at the moment, don't have comments.
>>>
>>> Regarding Papers, on the Mac, we are planning to add proper support for loading 'csl' files into Papers 2.2 by simple drag-and-drop. Nothing extraordinary, we just need to handle the file type appropriately. But that makes it easy to load a CSL file into Papers, as one can simply use e.g. the command-line `open` command, or from a Cocoa app, use the LaunchServices APIs. The command `open` is for instance:
>>>
>>> open -a Papers /path/to/some-style.csl
>>
>> Is there any reason it shouldn't just be possible to click on a link
>> on a web repository, and have it correctly installed?
>>
>> That's always been my vision, and I don't want to let it go if I can help it :-)
>>
>> Bruce
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Steve Ridout-2
In reply to this post by Robert Knight
On 30 March 2012 19:34, Robert Knight <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
> style between different machines and users easily?

Giving all created styles an ID which doubles as a URL from which the
style can be fetched, so they could
work in the same way as existing styles and be automatically
downloaded by clients if necessary, seems like
the obvious option.  The 1-click install can just be a link to this
URL - possibly converted to a tool-appropriate
link (Mendeley registers itself as a handler for mendeley:// links and
I believe Zotero and Papers both have a similar facility).

So for the style ID/URL, something like:
http://citationstyles.org/styles/<prefix>/<style name>

Where <prefix> is some prefix assigned to all styles created with the
tool and <style name> is
some name assigned by the user (from an alphabetic limited to letters,
numbers and hyphens).

The main question then is whether/how to handle updates and
authentication.  

For updates the following could work:

http://citationstyles.org/styles/<prefix>/<style name> - returns the newest style with this base URL

http://citationstyles.org/styles/<prefix>/<style name>?version=<version> - returns a specific version of the style, where <version> starts at 1 and increments each time a user exports an update of this style from the style editor tool.

The simplest way to implement this would be with no authentication, which could work since if someone changes your style, your version is still there in the history. On the other hand, I think authentication is preferable, since if there's a disagreement about a style I'd like to know who I'm arguing with, and to avoid malicious users purposely entering bad data.

What do the admins of citationstyles.org think of this?
 
Zotero and Mendeley both
have online accounts that could be used as identities for this purpose
and I presumably Papers must have one for Livfe as well.

Regards,
Rob.

On 30 March 2012 18:00, Sebastian Karcher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
>> style between different machines and users easily? I know that Mendeley
>> doesn't at the moment.
>
> neither does Zotero.
>
> --------
> Sebastian Karcher
> Ph.D. Candidate
> Department of Political Science
> Northwestern University
>
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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Robert Knight
> The simplest way to implement this would be with no authentication, which could work since if someone
> changes your style, your version is still there in the history.

I think that would be OK to start with.

In a subsequent iteration, associating a Mendeley / Zotero / other
identity with a particular style would be useful for authentication
but it also means that you could incorporate profile info - such as
name, description and photo into the 'About style X' page, which might
be useful
for people wanting to know whether a style is the one they are looking for.

Regards,
Rob.

On 2 April 2012 10:01, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 30 March 2012 19:34, Robert Knight <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a custom
>> > style between different machines and users easily?
>>
>> Giving all created styles an ID which doubles as a URL from which the
>> style can be fetched, so they could
>> work in the same way as existing styles and be automatically
>> downloaded by clients if necessary, seems like
>> the obvious option.  The 1-click install can just be a link to this
>> URL - possibly converted to a tool-appropriate
>> link (Mendeley registers itself as a handler for mendeley:// links and
>> I believe Zotero and Papers both have a similar facility).
>>
>> So for the style ID/URL, something like:
>> http://citationstyles.org/styles/<prefix>/<style name>
>>
>> Where <prefix> is some prefix assigned to all styles created with the
>> tool and <style name> is
>> some name assigned by the user (from an alphabetic limited to letters,
>> numbers and hyphens).
>>
>> The main question then is whether/how to handle updates and
>> authentication.
>
>
> For updates the following could work:
>
> http://citationstyles.org/styles/<prefix>/<style name> - returns the newest
> style with this base URL
>
> http://citationstyles.org/styles/<prefix>/<style name>?version=<version> -
> returns a specific version of the style, where <version> starts at 1 and
> increments each time a user exports an update of this style from the style
> editor tool.
>
> The simplest way to implement this would be with no authentication, which
> could work since if someone changes your style, your version is still there
> in the history. On the other hand, I think authentication is preferable,
> since if there's a disagreement about a style I'd like to know who I'm
> arguing with, and to avoid malicious users purposely entering bad data.
>
> What do the admins of citationstyles.org think of this?
>
>>
>> Zotero and Mendeley both
>> have online accounts that could be used as identities for this purpose
>> and I presumably Papers must have one for Livfe as well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob.
>>
>> On 30 March 2012 18:00, Sebastian Karcher <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Steve Ridout <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Does Zotero allow people to share a Word/OO document which uses a
>> >> custom
>> >> style between different machines and users easily? I know that Mendeley
>> >> doesn't at the moment.
>> >
>> > neither does Zotero.
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Sebastian Karcher
>> > Ph.D. Candidate
>> > Department of Political Science
>> > Northwestern University
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > This SF email is sponsosred by:
>> > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here
>> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure
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>> > xbiblio-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>
>>
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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Charles Parnot
In reply to this post by Bruce D'Arcus-3

On Apr 1, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Charles Parnot <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Ah, ha, yes, that too… sort of ;-) you can use the Papers bookmarklet on a URL for a CSl file. Since we ship all the styles from the CSL repository, though, the main workflow is to add a new CSL file to the user's styles.
>
> Right, but I'm still hoping to see CSL evolve to where
> journals/publishers start to host their own styles.

Indeed, that will be covered as well.


> Also, how do you deal with updating styles?

Updates come with the app updates, which are somewhat frequent, but it is still always a bit behind. We are still looking into more frequent updates indepedent of app updates, but in general, it has not been an issue very much. When we find some style problems, it's very rarely already fixed in the repo. Instead, I tweak the style, send it to the user, so they can try it. This gives me an extra way to check the style modifications too.

Charles


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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

fbennett
In reply to this post by Steve Ridout-2
Hi, Steve,

Tuned in to take a took this morning. The cosmetics and tie-ins
between search and edit are looking good (apart from the little typo
on "properties").

http://steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor

One small thought on usability that might entail a bunch of work: the
frames are pretty cramped on a small display. It would be handy to be
able to detach the sample output to a separate window, so that it can
be moved to a separate desktop on a netbook, or to a separate monitor
on a multi-head display.

Frank

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Re: Citation Style Editor prototype

Steve Ridout-2
On 26 April 2012 00:03, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi, Steve,

Tuned in to take a took this morning. The cosmetics and tie-ins
between search and edit are looking good (apart from the little typo
on "properties").

Typo fixed (but not yet live)
 

http://steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor

One small thought on usability that might entail a bunch of work: the
frames are pretty cramped on a small display. It would be handy to be
able to detach the sample output to a separate window, so that it can
be moved to a separate desktop on a netbook, or to a separate monitor
on a multi-head display.


I agree this could be useful, and we'll think about implementing it after doing the following:

1. A simpler representation of the CSL structure. I've done some refactoring to allow experimentation with this, at the moment I'm working on implementing this mockup: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1n0TxxDuWUwqDvgzKjL6wlZrL1u85MVC9SsbrCoRIlio/edit - feedback and suggestions are welcome.

2. There should be more example documents, plus the ability to add custom ones.

3. The property panel needs a makeover.

Thanks for the feedback.
Steve
 
Frank

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