French styles: quotes="true" versus prefix/suffix

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French styles: quotes="true" versus prefix/suffix

Frank Bennett
I've been working with a user on enhancements to multilingual support
in MLZ. The target format is something like this:

Smith, J. [« Hinode » 日の出 (Sunrise)], Good Books Press (2000).

(Square braces added) The stuff inside the square braces is a single
field for the "title" variable, made up of three elements: a
transliteration, the original text, and a translation. Each element
attracts different affixes, and is composed automatically by the
processor. This is meant to work with a standard style, without any
special markup in CSL to support multilingual cites.

We've discovered that a number of repo styles that are in the fr-FR
domain (or should be) apply quotes with prefix/suffix attributes. This
makes it impossible to control the application of the suffix to the
cs:text node that renders the title from the quotes in which it is
meant to be enclosed, so the processor issues something like this
(chopping off the closing quotation mark):

Smith, J. [« Hinode 日の出 (Sunrise)], Good Books Press (2000).

I would like to change all of these styles to use quotes="true"
instead, if there is concensus that this would make sense. I can't see
any downside.

Here are the styles that would be affected:

annales.csl
french1.csl
french2.csl
french3.csl
french4.csl
geneses.csl
histoire-at-politique.csl
histoire-et-mesure.csl
invisu.csl
le-mouvement-social.csl
lettres-et-sciences-humaines-fr.csl
mcrj7.csl
presses-universitaires-de-rennes.csl
revue-dhistoire-moderne-et-contemporaine.csl
traces.csl
universite-de-liege-histoire.csl
universite-laval-com.csl
vingtieme-siecle.csl

Frank

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Re: French styles: quotes="true" versus prefix/suffix

Sebastian Karcher
absolutely. These are csl 0.8 relics  (and then people editing
auto-converted styles in csl 1.0) - quotes should never be hard coded,
so yes, please do change it.
Cf. also this on twitter today, same problem:
https://twitter.com/JocelynM85/status/219893736413462532

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Frank Bennett
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've been working with a user on enhancements to multilingual support
> in MLZ. The target format is something like this:
>
> Smith, J. [« Hinode » 日の出 (Sunrise)], Good Books Press (2000).
>
> (Square braces added) The stuff inside the square braces is a single
> field for the "title" variable, made up of three elements: a
> transliteration, the original text, and a translation. Each element
> attracts different affixes, and is composed automatically by the
> processor. This is meant to work with a standard style, without any
> special markup in CSL to support multilingual cites.
>
> We've discovered that a number of repo styles that are in the fr-FR
> domain (or should be) apply quotes with prefix/suffix attributes. This
> makes it impossible to control the application of the suffix to the
> cs:text node that renders the title from the quotes in which it is
> meant to be enclosed, so the processor issues something like this
> (chopping off the closing quotation mark):
>
> Smith, J. [« Hinode 日の出 (Sunrise)], Good Books Press (2000).
>
> I would like to change all of these styles to use quotes="true"
> instead, if there is concensus that this would make sense. I can't see
> any downside.
>
> Here are the styles that would be affected:
>
> annales.csl
> french1.csl
> french2.csl
> french3.csl
> french4.csl
> geneses.csl
> histoire-at-politique.csl
> histoire-et-mesure.csl
> invisu.csl
> le-mouvement-social.csl
> lettres-et-sciences-humaines-fr.csl
> mcrj7.csl
> presses-universitaires-de-rennes.csl
> revue-dhistoire-moderne-et-contemporaine.csl
> traces.csl
> universite-de-liege-histoire.csl
> universite-laval-com.csl
> vingtieme-siecle.csl
>
> Frank
>
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> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> xbiblio-devel mailing list
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel



--
------
Sebastian Karcher
Ph.D. Candidate
Department of Political Science
Northwestern University

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Re: French styles: quotes="true" versus prefix/suffix

fbennett
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Sebastian Karcher
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> absolutely. These are csl 0.8 relics  (and then people editing
> auto-converted styles in csl 1.0) - quotes should never be hard coded,
> so yes, please do change it.
> Cf. also this on twitter today, same problem:
> https://twitter.com/JocelynM85/status/219893736413462532

Pull request now up, from quotes-fix branch on citation-style-language repo.

Frank

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Re: French styles: quotes="true" versus prefix/suffix

fbennett
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Sebastian Karcher
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> absolutely. These are csl 0.8 relics  (and then people editing
>> auto-converted styles in csl 1.0) - quotes should never be hard coded,
>> so yes, please do change it.
>> Cf. also this on twitter today, same problem:
>> https://twitter.com/JocelynM85/status/219893736413462532
>
> Pull request now up, from quotes-fix branch on citation-style-language repo.

On second thought, I'll just pull it in.

Frank

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Re: French styles: quotes="true" versus prefix/suffix

fbennett
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Sebastian Karcher
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> absolutely. These are csl 0.8 relics  (and then people editing
>>> auto-converted styles in csl 1.0) - quotes should never be hard coded,
>>> so yes, please do change it.
>>> Cf. also this on twitter today, same problem:
>>> https://twitter.com/JocelynM85/status/219893736413462532
>>
>> Pull request now up, from quotes-fix branch on citation-style-language repo.
>
> On second thought, I'll just pull it in.

Or not. Thanks for that!

Frank

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