Inheritance: name-as-sort-order cannot be unset

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Inheritance: name-as-sort-order cannot be unset

fbennett
I just ran across a missing feature in the schema. Default name
formatting parameters can be set in cs:style, but there doesn't seem
to be a way to turn this one off.

That is, if we set name-as-sort-order="first" on the cs:style node,
the only options available on individual cs:name nodes are "first"
itself, and "always", so it's no longer possible to get normal
name-ordering anywhere in the style. If we add "never" as a third
option, the attribute may see more use in styles.

Schema: https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/blob/v1.0.1/csl.rnc#L543

Specification: http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/specification.html#names

Frank

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Re: Inheritance: name-as-sort-order cannot be unset

Sebastian Karcher
Yes, I agree.
(That said, I generally discourage setting these attributes in cs:style. I think cs: name is a better place for them, both logically and also in terms of what we're doing in most styles, so it makes the relevant attribute easier to find.)

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
I just ran across a missing feature in the schema. Default name
formatting parameters can be set in cs:style, but there doesn't seem
to be a way to turn this one off.

That is, if we set name-as-sort-order="first" on the cs:style node,
the only options available on individual cs:name nodes are "first"
itself, and "always", so it's no longer possible to get normal
name-ordering anywhere in the style. If we add "never" as a third
option, the attribute may see more use in styles.

Schema: https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/blob/v1.0.1/csl.rnc#L543

Specification: http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/specification.html#names

Frank

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--
Sebastian Karcher, PhD
Department of Political Science
Northwestern University

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Re: Inheritance: name-as-sort-order cannot be unset

fbennett
On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Sebastian Karcher
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes, I agree.
> (That said, I generally discourage setting these attributes in cs:style. I
> think cs: name is a better place for them, both logically and also in terms
> of what we're doing in most styles, so it makes the relevant attribute
> easier to find.)

I can see the sense of that. My use case was in the context of a
modular style, where I needed a means of defaulting the leading list
of authors to the correct form without touching the module code. (I
know that there are doubts about whether modularity is right for CSL,
but I haven't given up :)

Frank



>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I just ran across a missing feature in the schema. Default name
>> formatting parameters can be set in cs:style, but there doesn't seem
>> to be a way to turn this one off.
>>
>> That is, if we set name-as-sort-order="first" on the cs:style node,
>> the only options available on individual cs:name nodes are "first"
>> itself, and "always", so it's no longer possible to get normal
>> name-ordering anywhere in the style. If we add "never" as a third
>> option, the attribute may see more use in styles.
>>
>> Schema:
>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/blob/v1.0.1/csl.rnc#L543
>>
>> Specification:
>> http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/specification.html#names
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
>> network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
>> for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
>> _______________________________________________
>> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Karcher, PhD
> Department of Political Science
> Northwestern University
>
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>

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Re: Inheritance: name-as-sort-order cannot be unset

rmzelle
Administrator
Sure. Do you need a way to cancel any other hierarchical attributes as well? (Like the et-al settings?)

Rintze

On Sunday, June 28, 2015, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Sebastian Karcher
<<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;karcher@u.northwestern.edu&#39;)">karcher@...> wrote:
> Yes, I agree.
> (That said, I generally discourage setting these attributes in cs:style. I
> think cs: name is a better place for them, both logically and also in terms
> of what we're doing in most styles, so it makes the relevant attribute
> easier to find.)

I can see the sense of that. My use case was in the context of a
modular style, where I needed a means of defaulting the leading list
of authors to the correct form without touching the module code. (I
know that there are doubts about whether modularity is right for CSL,
but I haven't given up :)

Frank



>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Frank Bennett <<a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;biercenator@gmail.com&#39;)">biercenator@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> I just ran across a missing feature in the schema. Default name
>> formatting parameters can be set in cs:style, but there doesn't seem
>> to be a way to turn this one off.
>>
>> That is, if we set name-as-sort-order="first" on the cs:style node,
>> the only options available on individual cs:name nodes are "first"
>> itself, and "always", so it's no longer possible to get normal
>> name-ordering anywhere in the style. If we add "never" as a third
>> option, the attribute may see more use in styles.
>>
>> Schema:
>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/blob/v1.0.1/csl.rnc#L543
>>
>> Specification:
>> http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/specification.html#names
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
>> OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
>> network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
>> for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
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>> <a href="javascript:;" onclick="_e(event, &#39;cvml&#39;, &#39;xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net&#39;)">xbiblio-devel@...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Karcher, PhD
> Department of Political Science
> Northwestern University
>
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>

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Re: Inheritance: name-as-sort-order cannot be unset

fbennett
On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 9:51 PM, Rintze Zelle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sure. Do you need a way to cancel any other hierarchical attributes as well?
> (Like the et-al settings?)

Thanks. The only one-way sticking point is with name-as-sort-order, as
far as I can tell. The et-al things should be okay as they are.

>
> Rintze
>
>
> On Sunday, June 28, 2015, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Sebastian Karcher
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Yes, I agree.
>> > (That said, I generally discourage setting these attributes in cs:style.
>> > I
>> > think cs: name is a better place for them, both logically and also in
>> > terms
>> > of what we're doing in most styles, so it makes the relevant attribute
>> > easier to find.)
>>
>> I can see the sense of that. My use case was in the context of a
>> modular style, where I needed a means of defaulting the leading list
>> of authors to the correct form without touching the module code. (I
>> know that there are doubts about whether modularity is right for CSL,
>> but I haven't given up :)
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I just ran across a missing feature in the schema. Default name
>> >> formatting parameters can be set in cs:style, but there doesn't seem
>> >> to be a way to turn this one off.
>> >>
>> >> That is, if we set name-as-sort-order="first" on the cs:style node,
>> >> the only options available on individual cs:name nodes are "first"
>> >> itself, and "always", so it's no longer possible to get normal
>> >> name-ordering anywhere in the style. If we add "never" as a third
>> >> option, the attribute may see more use in styles.
>> >>
>> >> Schema:
>> >>
>> >> https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/blob/v1.0.1/csl.rnc#L543
>> >>
>> >> Specification:
>> >> http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/specification.html#names
>> >>
>> >> Frank
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
>> >> OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
>> >> network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
>> >> for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download
>> >> now
>> >> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sebastian Karcher, PhD
>> > Department of Political Science
>> > Northwestern University
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
>> > OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
>> > network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
>> > for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
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>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>> >
>>
>>
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>
>
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