Locale files - script variants

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Locale files - script variants

rmzelle
Administrator
A user wishes to contribute a Latin variant of the Serbian CSL locale
file (in addition to the existing Cyrillic variant). See
https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/pull/46#issuecomment-10813711

Is it acceptable to add a script subtag to the locale file name and
xml:lang value? E.g. "locales-sr-RS-Latn.xml" (for Latin) and
"locales-sr-RS-Cyrl.xml" (for Cyrillic) (I guess we could omit the
script subtag from one variant, e.g. we could keep the Cyrillic
variant as "locales-sr-RS.xml"). See also
http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php#script

Rintze

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Re: Locale files - script variants

ajlyon

I know that Frank built citeproc-js to be aware of BCP 47 semantics, which are used extensively in MLZ, but can we do this without demanding the same of other processors?

On Nov 28, 2012 7:33 PM, "Rintze Zelle" <[hidden email]> wrote:
A user wishes to contribute a Latin variant of the Serbian CSL locale
file (in addition to the existing Cyrillic variant). See
https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/pull/46#issuecomment-10813711

Is it acceptable to add a script subtag to the locale file name and
xml:lang value? E.g. "locales-sr-RS-Latn.xml" (for Latin) and
"locales-sr-RS-Cyrl.xml" (for Cyrillic) (I guess we could omit the
script subtag from one variant, e.g. we could keep the Cyrillic
variant as "locales-sr-RS.xml"). See also
http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php#script

Rintze

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Re: Locale files - script variants

fbennett
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Avram Lyon <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I know that Frank built citeproc-js to be aware of BCP 47 semantics, which
> are used extensively in MLZ, but can we do this without demanding the same
> of other processors?

Avram,

I think that in locale filenames, citeproc-js will only handle the
first two elements of a tag at the moment. What sort of syntax do you
have in mind?

Frank

>
> On Nov 28, 2012 7:33 PM, "Rintze Zelle" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> A user wishes to contribute a Latin variant of the Serbian CSL locale
>> file (in addition to the existing Cyrillic variant). See
>>
>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/pull/46#issuecomment-10813711
>>
>> Is it acceptable to add a script subtag to the locale file name and
>> xml:lang value? E.g. "locales-sr-RS-Latn.xml" (for Latin) and
>> "locales-sr-RS-Cyrl.xml" (for Cyrillic) (I guess we could omit the
>> script subtag from one variant, e.g. we could keep the Cyrillic
>> variant as "locales-sr-RS.xml"). See also
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php#script
>>
>> Rintze
>>
>>
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Re: Locale files - script variants

fbennett
Off-list, Rintze and I came to the conclusion that a processor can
just treat the RS-Latn pair as a single tag, with the same fallback
behaviour as a single element. In this case, sr-RS-Latn would fall
back to plain-vanilla sr, with whatever default mapping defined for it
in the processor (so sr-RS). That covers script variants under the RFC
5646 specificaton, and should be simple to implement in processors.
citeproc-js needs a small adjustment to handle the filename in that
case, but it should be easy to do.

So I'm fine with including the file in the repo, if others are happy with it.

Frank


On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Avram Lyon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I know that Frank built citeproc-js to be aware of BCP 47 semantics, which
>> are used extensively in MLZ, but can we do this without demanding the same
>> of other processors?
>
> Avram,
>
> I think that in locale filenames, citeproc-js will only handle the
> first two elements of a tag at the moment. What sort of syntax do you
> have in mind?
>
> Frank
>
>>
>> On Nov 28, 2012 7:33 PM, "Rintze Zelle" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> A user wishes to contribute a Latin variant of the Serbian CSL locale
>>> file (in addition to the existing Cyrillic variant). See
>>>
>>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/pull/46#issuecomment-10813711
>>>
>>> Is it acceptable to add a script subtag to the locale file name and
>>> xml:lang value? E.g. "locales-sr-RS-Latn.xml" (for Latin) and
>>> "locales-sr-RS-Cyrl.xml" (for Cyrillic) (I guess we could omit the
>>> script subtag from one variant, e.g. we could keep the Cyrillic
>>> variant as "locales-sr-RS.xml"). See also
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php#script
>>>
>>> Rintze
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel:
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>>
>>
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Re: Locale files - script variants

Bruce D'Arcus-3
Minor thing: shouldn't file names be lower-case generally?

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Off-list, Rintze and I came to the conclusion that a processor can
> just treat the RS-Latn pair as a single tag, with the same fallback
> behaviour as a single element. In this case, sr-RS-Latn would fall
> back to plain-vanilla sr, with whatever default mapping defined for it
> in the processor (so sr-RS). That covers script variants under the RFC
> 5646 specificaton, and should be simple to implement in processors.
> citeproc-js needs a small adjustment to handle the filename in that
> case, but it should be easy to do.
>
> So I'm fine with including the file in the repo, if others are happy with it.
>
> Frank
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Avram Lyon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I know that Frank built citeproc-js to be aware of BCP 47 semantics, which
>>> are used extensively in MLZ, but can we do this without demanding the same
>>> of other processors?
>>
>> Avram,
>>
>> I think that in locale filenames, citeproc-js will only handle the
>> first two elements of a tag at the moment. What sort of syntax do you
>> have in mind?
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 28, 2012 7:33 PM, "Rintze Zelle" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A user wishes to contribute a Latin variant of the Serbian CSL locale
>>>> file (in addition to the existing Cyrillic variant). See
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/pull/46#issuecomment-10813711
>>>>
>>>> Is it acceptable to add a script subtag to the locale file name and
>>>> xml:lang value? E.g. "locales-sr-RS-Latn.xml" (for Latin) and
>>>> "locales-sr-RS-Cyrl.xml" (for Cyrillic) (I guess we could omit the
>>>> script subtag from one variant, e.g. we could keep the Cyrillic
>>>> variant as "locales-sr-RS.xml"). See also
>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php#script
>>>>
>>>> Rintze
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel:
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>>>> and peers. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net
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>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>>
>>>
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Re: Locale files - script variants

fbennett
I'll defer to others on filenaming conventions, but RFC 5646 language
tags are not case sensitive, so there would be no problem with
lowercasing as far as the specification is concerned.

On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Minor thing: shouldn't file names be lower-case generally?
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Off-list, Rintze and I came to the conclusion that a processor can
>> just treat the RS-Latn pair as a single tag, with the same fallback
>> behaviour as a single element. In this case, sr-RS-Latn would fall
>> back to plain-vanilla sr, with whatever default mapping defined for it
>> in the processor (so sr-RS). That covers script variants under the RFC
>> 5646 specificaton, and should be simple to implement in processors.
>> citeproc-js needs a small adjustment to handle the filename in that
>> case, but it should be easy to do.
>>
>> So I'm fine with including the file in the repo, if others are happy with it.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Avram Lyon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I know that Frank built citeproc-js to be aware of BCP 47 semantics, which
>>>> are used extensively in MLZ, but can we do this without demanding the same
>>>> of other processors?
>>>
>>> Avram,
>>>
>>> I think that in locale filenames, citeproc-js will only handle the
>>> first two elements of a tag at the moment. What sort of syntax do you
>>> have in mind?
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 28, 2012 7:33 PM, "Rintze Zelle" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A user wishes to contribute a Latin variant of the Serbian CSL locale
>>>>> file (in addition to the existing Cyrillic variant). See
>>>>>
>>>>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/pull/46#issuecomment-10813711
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it acceptable to add a script subtag to the locale file name and
>>>>> xml:lang value? E.g. "locales-sr-RS-Latn.xml" (for Latin) and
>>>>> "locales-sr-RS-Cyrl.xml" (for Cyrillic) (I guess we could omit the
>>>>> script subtag from one variant, e.g. we could keep the Cyrillic
>>>>> variant as "locales-sr-RS.xml"). See also
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php#script
>>>>>
>>>>> Rintze
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel:
>>>>> VERIFY Test and improve your parallel project with help from experts
>>>>> and peers. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net
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>>>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>
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Re: Locale files - script variants

ajlyon
In reply to this post by Bruce D'Arcus-3
Here, we run into a conflict with the standards for the language tags, which are generally cased in a particular way.


On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
Minor thing: shouldn't file names be lower-case generally?

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Off-list, Rintze and I came to the conclusion that a processor can
> just treat the RS-Latn pair as a single tag, with the same fallback
> behaviour as a single element. In this case, sr-RS-Latn would fall
> back to plain-vanilla sr, with whatever default mapping defined for it
> in the processor (so sr-RS). That covers script variants under the RFC
> 5646 specificaton, and should be simple to implement in processors.
> citeproc-js needs a small adjustment to handle the filename in that
> case, but it should be easy to do.
>
> So I'm fine with including the file in the repo, if others are happy with it.
>
> Frank
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Avram Lyon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I know that Frank built citeproc-js to be aware of BCP 47 semantics, which
>>> are used extensively in MLZ, but can we do this without demanding the same
>>> of other processors?
>>
>> Avram,
>>
>> I think that in locale filenames, citeproc-js will only handle the
>> first two elements of a tag at the moment. What sort of syntax do you
>> have in mind?
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 28, 2012 7:33 PM, "Rintze Zelle" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A user wishes to contribute a Latin variant of the Serbian CSL locale
>>>> file (in addition to the existing Cyrillic variant). See
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/pull/46#issuecomment-10813711
>>>>
>>>> Is it acceptable to add a script subtag to the locale file name and
>>>> xml:lang value? E.g. "locales-sr-RS-Latn.xml" (for Latin) and
>>>> "locales-sr-RS-Cyrl.xml" (for Cyrillic) (I guess we could omit the
>>>> script subtag from one variant, e.g. we could keep the Cyrillic
>>>> variant as "locales-sr-RS.xml"). See also
>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php#script
>>>>
>>>> Rintze
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel:
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>>>> and peers. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net
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>>>
>>>
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Re: Locale files - script variants

fbennett
Here is the language from RFC 5646:

   The ABNF syntax also does not distinguish between upper- and
   lowercase: the uppercase US-ASCII letters in the range 'A' through
   'Z' are always considered equivalent and mapped directly to their US-
   ASCII lowercase equivalents in the range 'a' through 'z'.  So the tag
   "I-AMI" is considered equivalent to that value "i-ami" in the
   'irregular' production.

   Although case distinctions do not carry meaning in language tags,
   consistent formatting and presentation of language tags will aid
   users.  The format of subtags in the registry is RECOMMENDED as the
   form to use in language tags.  This format generally corresponds to
   the common conventions for the various ISO standards from which the
   subtags are derived.

So Avram and I are not at odds. For readability, you would adhere to
the convention of using uppercase.

Frank


On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 6:16 AM, Avram Lyon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Here, we run into a conflict with the standards for the language tags, which
> are generally cased in a particular way.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Minor thing: shouldn't file names be lower-case generally?
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Off-list, Rintze and I came to the conclusion that a processor can
>> > just treat the RS-Latn pair as a single tag, with the same fallback
>> > behaviour as a single element. In this case, sr-RS-Latn would fall
>> > back to plain-vanilla sr, with whatever default mapping defined for it
>> > in the processor (so sr-RS). That covers script variants under the RFC
>> > 5646 specificaton, and should be simple to implement in processors.
>> > citeproc-js needs a small adjustment to handle the filename in that
>> > case, but it should be easy to do.
>> >
>> > So I'm fine with including the file in the repo, if others are happy
>> > with it.
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Frank Bennett <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Avram Lyon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> I know that Frank built citeproc-js to be aware of BCP 47 semantics,
>> >>> which
>> >>> are used extensively in MLZ, but can we do this without demanding the
>> >>> same
>> >>> of other processors?
>> >>
>> >> Avram,
>> >>
>> >> I think that in locale filenames, citeproc-js will only handle the
>> >> first two elements of a tag at the moment. What sort of syntax do you
>> >> have in mind?
>> >>
>> >> Frank
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Nov 28, 2012 7:33 PM, "Rintze Zelle" <[hidden email]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> A user wishes to contribute a Latin variant of the Serbian CSL locale
>> >>>> file (in addition to the existing Cyrillic variant). See
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/pull/46#issuecomment-10813711
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Is it acceptable to add a script subtag to the locale file name and
>> >>>> xml:lang value? E.g. "locales-sr-RS-Latn.xml" (for Latin) and
>> >>>> "locales-sr-RS-Cyrl.xml" (for Cyrillic) (I guess we could omit the
>> >>>> script subtag from one variant, e.g. we could keep the Cyrillic
>> >>>> variant as "locales-sr-RS.xml"). See also
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php#script
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Rintze
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel:
>> >>>> VERIFY Test and improve your parallel project with help from experts
>> >>>> and peers. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net
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>> >>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>> >>>> [hidden email]
>> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >>>
>> >
>> >
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