Mendeley/Elsevier Donation

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Re: Mendeley/Elsevier Donation

Robert Knight
Hi Rintze, Sebastian,

Thank-you once again for your continued work on the project. Your
proposal sounds good to me and
I think you're best placed to judge how to use it.

> While development of
> CSL has been quiet before the flurry of activity we expect once Zotero
> starts revisiting its metadata model,

Is there any background info on this that you would recommend reading?
If changes to Zotero's model filter down to CSL then it will likely
affect Mendeley as well and future interoperability
between documents authored with plugins from one tool or the other.

Regards,
Rob.

On 14 October 2014 17:15, Rintze Zelle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Sebastian and I were informed that Elsevier/Mendeley wishes to support
> the CSL project again this year with another $5000 donation, for which
> we are very grateful.
>
> In separate news, we've been pursuing membership to the Software
> Freedom Conservancy (https://sfconservancy.org/). This would allow us
> to receive tax-deductible donations, in exchange for a 10% cut of any
> donations received. They seem legit, and offer some legal support and
> liability protection as well (see
> https://sfconservancy.org/members/services/). However, since it might
> be a few months before we're accepted as a member (if at all), it's
> probably best to keep the same arrangement as before, where Sebastian
> accepts the donation as a private person, and distributes the funds
> that remain after taxes.
>
> As for use of the funds, we think there should be two goals.
>
> First, to reimburse people who either incurred personal expenses
> related to CSL (like the purchase of style guides), and to reward
> those who recently volunteered considerable effort in developing and
> maintaining the project (excluding those paid through other means).
> Project roles are largely the same as last year. While development of
> CSL has been quiet before the flurry of activity we expect once Zotero
> starts revisiting its metadata model, Sebastian and I have again put
> in a reasonable amount of work in maintaining the style and locale
> repositories. In recent months Philipp Zumstein
> (https://github.com/zuphilip) has been kind enough to lend a hand as
> well. In the past year, I also created
> http://validator.citationstyles.org/ and worked on documentation. Let
> me know if I have missed any other significant volunteer
> contributions.
>
> Second, to fund future projects. We contacted Sylvester Keil, who
> previously helped us for free to set up our Travis-CI testing
> framework. He is willing to develop a validation bot for $1000 (+VAT),
> which Sebastian and I find very reasonable. This would allow him to
> dedicate two full weeks to this project (we’re getting a steep
> discount on his usual rate). Such a bot would automatically generate a
> human-readable validation report for every pull request and any
> subsequent commits. This would save us a lot of work and quickly
> provide users with detailed feedback on their style/locale submissions
> (see https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/issues/1088).
>
> Other bounties could e.g. focus on improving the CSL visual editor. We
> could also spend on marketing CSL, and e.g. pay for attendance fees
> and travel costs to conferences where we can showcase CSL (Carles once
> proposed FOSDEM, https://fosdem.org/2015/). Or we could pay for travel
> costs to allow CSL developers to meet in person, especially if they
> already happen to be in each other's area.
>
> We currently don't have any significant recurring expenses, since most
> of our infrastructure is either available for free (GitHub,
> validator.nu, Read the Docs) or sponsored by Zotero (hosting
> http://citationstyles.org/ and running
> https://github.com/citation-style-language/distribution-updater) and
> Mendeley (hosting http://editor.citationstyles.org/).
>
> Last year's donation of $5000 was effectively split between Sebastian
> and myself in two shares of $2000 after taxes. Our proposal for this
> year is to reserve approximately $1200 as a bounty for Sylvester Keil,
> and support myself and Sebastian with circa $1250 each. We also
> suggest a $200 reward for Philipp, but he still has to check with his
> employer whether he can accept one. We might make some adjustments to
> Sebastian's and my payout based on Sebastian exact tax burden, and we
> might save some money for future expenses. We would also renew the
> offer to pay for Frank’s server expenses related to MLZ/CSL-m. His
> side project is a significant boon to CSL development, both via
> citeproc-js and as a testing ground for new ideas. Frank didn’t accept
> this last year, but we’ll keep trying.
>
> Let us know if there are any objections to this general spending plan.
> As before, we welcome any thoughts on the way these funds should be
> used, especially since we don't want to unfairly benefit ourselves.
>
> Best,
>
> Rintze and Sebastian
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Sebastian Karcher
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> happy new year! Just in time for the new year, we finally received the
>> Elsevier donation.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
> Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications.
> Take corrective actions from your mobile device.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho
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Re: Mendeley/Elsevier Donation

Bruce D'Arcus-3
Perhaps it's time to take up a more general, rigorous, forward-looking, analysis of the CSL metadata model, as expressed in the JSON schema and CSL variable matching? That way, different projects could propose changes/enhancements based on their needs, but we have a process to resolve them.

Bruce

PS - I'm fine with the funds proposal too.

On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Robert Knight <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Rintze, Sebastian,

Thank-you once again for your continued work on the project. Your
proposal sounds good to me and
I think you're best placed to judge how to use it.

> While development of
> CSL has been quiet before the flurry of activity we expect once Zotero
> starts revisiting its metadata model,

Is there any background info on this that you would recommend reading?
If changes to Zotero's model filter down to CSL then it will likely
affect Mendeley as well and future interoperability
between documents authored with plugins from one tool or the other.

Regards,
Rob.

On 14 October 2014 17:15, Rintze Zelle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Sebastian and I were informed that Elsevier/Mendeley wishes to support
> the CSL project again this year with another $5000 donation, for which
> we are very grateful.
>
> In separate news, we've been pursuing membership to the Software
> Freedom Conservancy (https://sfconservancy.org/). This would allow us
> to receive tax-deductible donations, in exchange for a 10% cut of any
> donations received. They seem legit, and offer some legal support and
> liability protection as well (see
> https://sfconservancy.org/members/services/). However, since it might
> be a few months before we're accepted as a member (if at all), it's
> probably best to keep the same arrangement as before, where Sebastian
> accepts the donation as a private person, and distributes the funds
> that remain after taxes.
>
> As for use of the funds, we think there should be two goals.
>
> First, to reimburse people who either incurred personal expenses
> related to CSL (like the purchase of style guides), and to reward
> those who recently volunteered considerable effort in developing and
> maintaining the project (excluding those paid through other means).
> Project roles are largely the same as last year. While development of
> CSL has been quiet before the flurry of activity we expect once Zotero
> starts revisiting its metadata model, Sebastian and I have again put
> in a reasonable amount of work in maintaining the style and locale
> repositories. In recent months Philipp Zumstein
> (https://github.com/zuphilip) has been kind enough to lend a hand as
> well. In the past year, I also created
> http://validator.citationstyles.org/ and worked on documentation. Let
> me know if I have missed any other significant volunteer
> contributions.
>
> Second, to fund future projects. We contacted Sylvester Keil, who
> previously helped us for free to set up our Travis-CI testing
> framework. He is willing to develop a validation bot for $1000 (+VAT),
> which Sebastian and I find very reasonable. This would allow him to
> dedicate two full weeks to this project (we’re getting a steep
> discount on his usual rate). Such a bot would automatically generate a
> human-readable validation report for every pull request and any
> subsequent commits. This would save us a lot of work and quickly
> provide users with detailed feedback on their style/locale submissions
> (see https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/issues/1088).
>
> Other bounties could e.g. focus on improving the CSL visual editor. We
> could also spend on marketing CSL, and e.g. pay for attendance fees
> and travel costs to conferences where we can showcase CSL (Carles once
> proposed FOSDEM, https://fosdem.org/2015/). Or we could pay for travel
> costs to allow CSL developers to meet in person, especially if they
> already happen to be in each other's area.
>
> We currently don't have any significant recurring expenses, since most
> of our infrastructure is either available for free (GitHub,
> validator.nu, Read the Docs) or sponsored by Zotero (hosting
> http://citationstyles.org/ and running
> https://github.com/citation-style-language/distribution-updater) and
> Mendeley (hosting http://editor.citationstyles.org/).
>
> Last year's donation of $5000 was effectively split between Sebastian
> and myself in two shares of $2000 after taxes. Our proposal for this
> year is to reserve approximately $1200 as a bounty for Sylvester Keil,
> and support myself and Sebastian with circa $1250 each. We also
> suggest a $200 reward for Philipp, but he still has to check with his
> employer whether he can accept one. We might make some adjustments to
> Sebastian's and my payout based on Sebastian exact tax burden, and we
> might save some money for future expenses. We would also renew the
> offer to pay for Frank’s server expenses related to MLZ/CSL-m. His
> side project is a significant boon to CSL development, both via
> citeproc-js and as a testing ground for new ideas. Frank didn’t accept
> this last year, but we’ll keep trying.
>
> Let us know if there are any objections to this general spending plan.
> As before, we welcome any thoughts on the way these funds should be
> used, especially since we don't want to unfairly benefit ourselves.
>
> Best,
>
> Rintze and Sebastian
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Sebastian Karcher
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> happy new year! Just in time for the new year, we finally received the
>> Elsevier donation.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7.
> Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
> Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications.
> Take corrective actions from your mobile device.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho
> _______________________________________________
> xbiblio-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel

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Re: Mendeley/Elsevier Donation

ajlyon
In reply to this post by Robert Knight
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Robert Knight <[hidden email]> wrote:
> While development of
> CSL has been quiet before the flurry of activity we expect once Zotero
> starts revisiting its metadata model,

Is there any background info on this that you would recommend reading?
If changes to Zotero's model filter down to CSL then it will likely
affect Mendeley as well and future interoperability
between documents authored with plugins from one tool or the other.

The most visible collaboration on changes to the Zotero models and potential CSL directions has been here: https://github.com/ajlyon/zotero-bits/issues


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Re: Mendeley/Elsevier Donation

skarcher
Administrator
In reply to this post by Robert Knight
Hi Robert,

that maybe needs clarification: we will never just "filter down"
Zotero changes to CSL. Before we make changes to CSL, we will propose
them here, will have a period for comments on spec changes and will
talk about a time-table for implementation.

Where Zotero comes in is mainly that it makes sense to think about
some changes in how they interact with a reference manager, if they
require changes there, etc. We've implemented some changes
significantly ahead of Zotero (dataset item type, the various
"original-" variable) and there's little reason we couldn't do that
again. So the Zotero item/field revamp is mainly a good opportunity to
take this on. See Avram's link for details so far. The tags there
should help to distinguish items that are only relevant to Zotero from
CSL-related issues.
So, along the lines of what Bruce says, this really shouldn't be a
"filtering down from Zotero" process at all. The main reason Zotero
comes up is that Rintze, me, and Frank are all most familiar with
Zotero, so we're using that as a way to think about CSL changes. But
any other reference manager related input as to what is needed in CSL
is just as welcome.

For any changes in functionality that aren't directly related to
reference managers (things like "idem" for example), we'd of course
work closely with implementers, and given that Frank's citeproc-js is,
for all intents and purposes, the benchmark there, you're in the front
seat anyway.

Hope that makes sense.

Sebastian


On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Robert Knight
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Rintze, Sebastian,
>
> Thank-you once again for your continued work on the project. Your
> proposal sounds good to me and
> I think you're best placed to judge how to use it.
>
>> While development of
>> CSL has been quiet before the flurry of activity we expect once Zotero
>> starts revisiting its metadata model,
>
> Is there any background info on this that you would recommend reading?
> If changes to Zotero's model filter down to CSL then it will likely
> affect Mendeley as well and future interoperability
> between documents authored with plugins from one tool or the other.
>
> Regards,
> Rob.
>
> On 14 October 2014 17:15, Rintze Zelle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Sebastian and I were informed that Elsevier/Mendeley wishes to support
>> the CSL project again this year with another $5000 donation, for which
>> we are very grateful.
>>
>> In separate news, we've been pursuing membership to the Software
>> Freedom Conservancy (https://sfconservancy.org/). This would allow us
>> to receive tax-deductible donations, in exchange for a 10% cut of any
>> donations received. They seem legit, and offer some legal support and
>> liability protection as well (see
>> https://sfconservancy.org/members/services/). However, since it might
>> be a few months before we're accepted as a member (if at all), it's
>> probably best to keep the same arrangement as before, where Sebastian
>> accepts the donation as a private person, and distributes the funds
>> that remain after taxes.
>>
>> As for use of the funds, we think there should be two goals.
>>
>> First, to reimburse people who either incurred personal expenses
>> related to CSL (like the purchase of style guides), and to reward
>> those who recently volunteered considerable effort in developing and
>> maintaining the project (excluding those paid through other means).
>> Project roles are largely the same as last year. While development of
>> CSL has been quiet before the flurry of activity we expect once Zotero
>> starts revisiting its metadata model, Sebastian and I have again put
>> in a reasonable amount of work in maintaining the style and locale
>> repositories. In recent months Philipp Zumstein
>> (https://github.com/zuphilip) has been kind enough to lend a hand as
>> well. In the past year, I also created
>> http://validator.citationstyles.org/ and worked on documentation. Let
>> me know if I have missed any other significant volunteer
>> contributions.
>>
>> Second, to fund future projects. We contacted Sylvester Keil, who
>> previously helped us for free to set up our Travis-CI testing
>> framework. He is willing to develop a validation bot for $1000 (+VAT),
>> which Sebastian and I find very reasonable. This would allow him to
>> dedicate two full weeks to this project (we’re getting a steep
>> discount on his usual rate). Such a bot would automatically generate a
>> human-readable validation report for every pull request and any
>> subsequent commits. This would save us a lot of work and quickly
>> provide users with detailed feedback on their style/locale submissions
>> (see https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/issues/1088).
>>
>> Other bounties could e.g. focus on improving the CSL visual editor. We
>> could also spend on marketing CSL, and e.g. pay for attendance fees
>> and travel costs to conferences where we can showcase CSL (Carles once
>> proposed FOSDEM, https://fosdem.org/2015/). Or we could pay for travel
>> costs to allow CSL developers to meet in person, especially if they
>> already happen to be in each other's area.
>>
>> We currently don't have any significant recurring expenses, since most
>> of our infrastructure is either available for free (GitHub,
>> validator.nu, Read the Docs) or sponsored by Zotero (hosting
>> http://citationstyles.org/ and running
>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/distribution-updater) and
>> Mendeley (hosting http://editor.citationstyles.org/).
>>
>> Last year's donation of $5000 was effectively split between Sebastian
>> and myself in two shares of $2000 after taxes. Our proposal for this
>> year is to reserve approximately $1200 as a bounty for Sylvester Keil,
>> and support myself and Sebastian with circa $1250 each. We also
>> suggest a $200 reward for Philipp, but he still has to check with his
>> employer whether he can accept one. We might make some adjustments to
>> Sebastian's and my payout based on Sebastian exact tax burden, and we
>> might save some money for future expenses. We would also renew the
>> offer to pay for Frank’s server expenses related to MLZ/CSL-m. His
>> side project is a significant boon to CSL development, both via
>> citeproc-js and as a testing ground for new ideas. Frank didn’t accept
>> this last year, but we’ll keep trying.
>>
>> Let us know if there are any objections to this general spending plan.
>> As before, we welcome any thoughts on the way these funds should be
>> used, especially since we don't want to unfairly benefit ourselves.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rintze and Sebastian
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Sebastian Karcher
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> happy new year! Just in time for the new year, we finally received the
>>> Elsevier donation.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7.
>> Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
>> Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications.
>> Take corrective actions from your mobile device.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho
>> _______________________________________________
>> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
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--
Sebastian Karcher, PhD
Department of Political Science
Northwestern University

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Re: Mendeley/Elsevier Donation

rmzelle
Administrator
Further discussion on this topic should probably take place in it's
own thread, but as for my opinion on the CSL development process
(apologies for the long ramble):

While there are known limitations in CSL 1.0.1, it's been proven to be
a sturdy release, and having sporadic releases has its advantages. It
simplifies maintenance and distribution of our styles and locale files
(since we just maintain files for the latest CSL release), it makes it
easier to share styles and locale files between applications (since
they're usually on the same version), and CSL processors become more
thoroughly tested and stable. If we had rolling releases there would
be all kinds of compatibility problems.

I personally haven't minded the slow progress of development in the
past two years. It was a nice break, and allowed us to focus on
improving our CSL infrastructure and curating our repositories. Since
the release of 1.0.1, we've gained thousands of styles
(http://pinux.info/csls_counter/), we have created a workflow to
generate the majority of our dependent styles from spreadsheet data
(https://github.com/citation-style-language/utilities/tree/master/generate_dependent_styles),
we started using Travis-CI to get and keep our style and locale repos
in tip-top shape
(https://travis-ci.org/citation-style-language/styles/), created a
separate distribution style repo that only gets updated if Travis is
happy (https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles-distribution),
we started keeping track of renamed styles
(https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles-distribution/blob/master/renamed-styles.json),
and we have a nice new validator
(http://validator.citationstyles.org/). In early 2013 I even checked
every style by hand (about 3000 at that time), adding ISSNs where
possible, and verifying that all the journals for which we had styles
were still active.

One reason for not implementing certain features in CSL 1.0 and 1.0.1
was that we couldn't come up with an elegant solution, or weren't
ready to commit to a certain design path. Frank Bennett's forging
ahead with Multilingual Zotero has been an ongoing experiment and
playground for making certain extensions to CSL, and his user feedback
will be very valuable in directing future CSL development.

So, that said, I do think it's getting time to start preparing for
another release. In this light:

I'm working to update the CSL primer and migrate it to
http://docs.citationstyles.org/. Once that is done, I'm planning to
move the specification there as well. Since the contents of
http://docs.citationstyles.org/ is automatically generated from the
reStructuredText sources, and supports versioning, this should make it
much easier to develop the CSL specification and having a rendered
copy of the "master" branch at all times.

I won't deny that Zotero and CSL have a special relationship, for
which there are many reasons. Zotero was the first big project to use
CSL, Simon co-developed CSL in the early days, many other CSL
developers come from Zotero, the Zotero forums are one of the most
active places on the web to discuss CSL, Zotero's open source nature
makes it easy to study the Zotero-CSL interface, etc. But we're keenly
aware that CSL is in wide use, and I think everybody here is committed
not to give Zotero an unfair advantage by focusing purely on
Zotero/CSL compatibility.

We'll continue our process of proposing every change to CSL on the
xbiblio list, and try to reach consensus on all changes. The way I
expect things to happen is that, once Zotero starts focusing on its
metadata model, most discussion will first take place on the
zotero-bits repo. Based on the conclusions draw there, we'll propose a
neat list of changes to CSL here on this list, and ask for
comments/feedback/approval. There should be plenty of time for the
vetting process. Zotero has kept the same metadata model for years, so
we can take a few months. We'll probably coordinate a CSL release
somewhat with Zotero, but give plenty of notice not to surprise
anybody. Of course, this doesn't prohibit anybody from independently
proposing changes on this mailing list in the meantime. Everybody is
welcome to participate at the zotero-bits repo as well.

In relation to what Bruce said, I would like CSL to provide more
guidance on what the role is of the different item types, and which
metadata fields should be available for each type. If we do prepare
documentation and/or a schema for this, I expect we would take the new
Zotero/CSL mapping as a starting point, and try to create a canonical
version based on that.

As for other changes to CSL: I'm happy to continue managing the CSL
project, but I personally won't be pushing as hard for further changes
to CSL as I once did a few years ago. So if anybody feels development
is too slow, feel free to bug me or the xbiblio list, or step up
yourself.

Rintze

On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Sebastian Karcher
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> that maybe needs clarification: we will never just "filter down"
> Zotero changes to CSL. Before we make changes to CSL, we will propose
> them here, will have a period for comments on spec changes and will
> talk about a time-table for implementation.
>
> Where Zotero comes in is mainly that it makes sense to think about
> some changes in how they interact with a reference manager, if they
> require changes there, etc. We've implemented some changes
> significantly ahead of Zotero (dataset item type, the various
> "original-" variable) and there's little reason we couldn't do that
> again. So the Zotero item/field revamp is mainly a good opportunity to
> take this on. See Avram's link for details so far. The tags there
> should help to distinguish items that are only relevant to Zotero from
> CSL-related issues.
> So, along the lines of what Bruce says, this really shouldn't be a
> "filtering down from Zotero" process at all. The main reason Zotero
> comes up is that Rintze, me, and Frank are all most familiar with
> Zotero, so we're using that as a way to think about CSL changes. But
> any other reference manager related input as to what is needed in CSL
> is just as welcome.
>
> For any changes in functionality that aren't directly related to
> reference managers (things like "idem" for example), we'd of course
> work closely with implementers, and given that Frank's citeproc-js is,
> for all intents and purposes, the benchmark there, you're in the front
> seat anyway.
>
> Hope that makes sense.
>
> Sebastian
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Robert Knight
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Rintze, Sebastian,
>>
>> Thank-you once again for your continued work on the project. Your
>> proposal sounds good to me and
>> I think you're best placed to judge how to use it.
>>
>>> While development of
>>> CSL has been quiet before the flurry of activity we expect once Zotero
>>> starts revisiting its metadata model,
>>
>> Is there any background info on this that you would recommend reading?
>> If changes to Zotero's model filter down to CSL then it will likely
>> affect Mendeley as well and future interoperability
>> between documents authored with plugins from one tool or the other.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob.

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Re: Mendeley/Elsevier Donation

Robert Knight
Hi Rintze, Sebastian,

When I talked about changes from Zotero 'filtering down' to CSL, I
absolutely didn't mean that in a negative sense.
The Zotero community have done a lot of important work in gathering
requirements for representing citation data and some of
that will translate into proposals for CSL as you describe.

Up until now Mendeley hasn't done much in the way of similar exercises
but I think that may change in future.

Most recent work on our side has been cleaning up Elsevier's own
styles to reduce a lot of needless duplication which doesn't affect
the spec. As Carles will testify, that hasn't been the most efficient
process though.


On 15 October 2014 04:13, Rintze Zelle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Further discussion on this topic should probably take place in it's
> own thread, but as for my opinion on the CSL development process
> (apologies for the long ramble):
>
> While there are known limitations in CSL 1.0.1, it's been proven to be
> a sturdy release, and having sporadic releases has its advantages. It
> simplifies maintenance and distribution of our styles and locale files
> (since we just maintain files for the latest CSL release), it makes it
> easier to share styles and locale files between applications (since
> they're usually on the same version), and CSL processors become more
> thoroughly tested and stable. If we had rolling releases there would
> be all kinds of compatibility problems.
>
> I personally haven't minded the slow progress of development in the
> past two years. It was a nice break, and allowed us to focus on
> improving our CSL infrastructure and curating our repositories. Since
> the release of 1.0.1, we've gained thousands of styles
> (http://pinux.info/csls_counter/), we have created a workflow to
> generate the majority of our dependent styles from spreadsheet data
> (https://github.com/citation-style-language/utilities/tree/master/generate_dependent_styles),
> we started using Travis-CI to get and keep our style and locale repos
> in tip-top shape
> (https://travis-ci.org/citation-style-language/styles/), created a
> separate distribution style repo that only gets updated if Travis is
> happy (https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles-distribution),
> we started keeping track of renamed styles
> (https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles-distribution/blob/master/renamed-styles.json),
> and we have a nice new validator
> (http://validator.citationstyles.org/). In early 2013 I even checked
> every style by hand (about 3000 at that time), adding ISSNs where
> possible, and verifying that all the journals for which we had styles
> were still active.
>
> One reason for not implementing certain features in CSL 1.0 and 1.0.1
> was that we couldn't come up with an elegant solution, or weren't
> ready to commit to a certain design path. Frank Bennett's forging
> ahead with Multilingual Zotero has been an ongoing experiment and
> playground for making certain extensions to CSL, and his user feedback
> will be very valuable in directing future CSL development.
>
> So, that said, I do think it's getting time to start preparing for
> another release. In this light:
>
> I'm working to update the CSL primer and migrate it to
> http://docs.citationstyles.org/. Once that is done, I'm planning to
> move the specification there as well. Since the contents of
> http://docs.citationstyles.org/ is automatically generated from the
> reStructuredText sources, and supports versioning, this should make it
> much easier to develop the CSL specification and having a rendered
> copy of the "master" branch at all times.
>
> I won't deny that Zotero and CSL have a special relationship, for
> which there are many reasons. Zotero was the first big project to use
> CSL, Simon co-developed CSL in the early days, many other CSL
> developers come from Zotero, the Zotero forums are one of the most
> active places on the web to discuss CSL, Zotero's open source nature
> makes it easy to study the Zotero-CSL interface, etc. But we're keenly
> aware that CSL is in wide use, and I think everybody here is committed
> not to give Zotero an unfair advantage by focusing purely on
> Zotero/CSL compatibility.
>
> We'll continue our process of proposing every change to CSL on the
> xbiblio list, and try to reach consensus on all changes. The way I
> expect things to happen is that, once Zotero starts focusing on its
> metadata model, most discussion will first take place on the
> zotero-bits repo. Based on the conclusions draw there, we'll propose a
> neat list of changes to CSL here on this list, and ask for
> comments/feedback/approval. There should be plenty of time for the
> vetting process. Zotero has kept the same metadata model for years, so
> we can take a few months. We'll probably coordinate a CSL release
> somewhat with Zotero, but give plenty of notice not to surprise
> anybody. Of course, this doesn't prohibit anybody from independently
> proposing changes on this mailing list in the meantime. Everybody is
> welcome to participate at the zotero-bits repo as well.
>
> In relation to what Bruce said, I would like CSL to provide more
> guidance on what the role is of the different item types, and which
> metadata fields should be available for each type. If we do prepare
> documentation and/or a schema for this, I expect we would take the new
> Zotero/CSL mapping as a starting point, and try to create a canonical
> version based on that.
>
> As for other changes to CSL: I'm happy to continue managing the CSL
> project, but I personally won't be pushing as hard for further changes
> to CSL as I once did a few years ago. So if anybody feels development
> is too slow, feel free to bug me or the xbiblio list, or step up
> yourself.
>
> Rintze
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Sebastian Karcher
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> that maybe needs clarification: we will never just "filter down"
>> Zotero changes to CSL. Before we make changes to CSL, we will propose
>> them here, will have a period for comments on spec changes and will
>> talk about a time-table for implementation.
>>
>> Where Zotero comes in is mainly that it makes sense to think about
>> some changes in how they interact with a reference manager, if they
>> require changes there, etc. We've implemented some changes
>> significantly ahead of Zotero (dataset item type, the various
>> "original-" variable) and there's little reason we couldn't do that
>> again. So the Zotero item/field revamp is mainly a good opportunity to
>> take this on. See Avram's link for details so far. The tags there
>> should help to distinguish items that are only relevant to Zotero from
>> CSL-related issues.
>> So, along the lines of what Bruce says, this really shouldn't be a
>> "filtering down from Zotero" process at all. The main reason Zotero
>> comes up is that Rintze, me, and Frank are all most familiar with
>> Zotero, so we're using that as a way to think about CSL changes. But
>> any other reference manager related input as to what is needed in CSL
>> is just as welcome.
>>
>> For any changes in functionality that aren't directly related to
>> reference managers (things like "idem" for example), we'd of course
>> work closely with implementers, and given that Frank's citeproc-js is,
>> for all intents and purposes, the benchmark there, you're in the front
>> seat anyway.
>>
>> Hope that makes sense.
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Robert Knight
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Rintze, Sebastian,
>>>
>>> Thank-you once again for your continued work on the project. Your
>>> proposal sounds good to me and
>>> I think you're best placed to judge how to use it.
>>>
>>>> While development of
>>>> CSL has been quiet before the flurry of activity we expect once Zotero
>>>> starts revisiting its metadata model,
>>>
>>> Is there any background info on this that you would recommend reading?
>>> If changes to Zotero's model filter down to CSL then it will likely
>>> affect Mendeley as well and future interoperability
>>> between documents authored with plugins from one tool or the other.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rob.
>
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Re: Mendeley/Elsevier Donation

rmzelle
Administrator
I basically just wanted to outline my thoughts on the near future of
CSL, so that interested parties know what's up and can steer our
direction if they think we should do things a little differently.

Rintze

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Robert Knight
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Rintze, Sebastian,
>
> When I talked about changes from Zotero 'filtering down' to CSL, I
> absolutely didn't mean that in a negative sense.
> The Zotero community have done a lot of important work in gathering
> requirements for representing citation data and some of
> that will translate into proposals for CSL as you describe.
>
> Up until now Mendeley hasn't done much in the way of similar exercises
> but I think that may change in future.
>
> Most recent work on our side has been cleaning up Elsevier's own
> styles to reduce a lot of needless duplication which doesn't affect
> the spec. As Carles will testify, that hasn't been the most efficient
> process though.

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