Newbie Questions

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Newbie Questions

Justus Piater
Hi Bruce et al.,

I just joined your list because I just analyzed my needs, came up with
a rough schema of how I think citation processing should work, and
concluded that XBiblio shares almost or completely all of these views.

Here are a few questions that I could not immediately find the answers
for, without digging through the citeproc-0.6 code. Please excuse if
the answers are in the list archives; I did not find them at first
glance, thanks for pointing me to them:

- The citation processor should permit processor-independent document
  encoding. RefDB doesn't; its citation encoding is specific to RefDB,
  in both compact and full syntax. XBiblio does, doesn't it? (Of
  course, there's always the site-specific citation key, but this is
  hard to avoid unless one comes up with globally unique citation
  keys.)

- How are grammar-sensitive references handled, e.g. if I cite Walsh
  (2005) and my own work (Piater, 2005)? In DocBook, I could imagine
  using the role attribute for this, but I'm not sure about other input
  languages.

- Does XBiblio support multiple reference lists within the same
  document? This prevents simple linking to citation keys as XML ID
  values; one would have to resort to auto-generated IDs and/or more
  general XPointer links to non-ID attributes.

That's it for now, I'll probably ask loads of questions later...
Thanks,
Justus

--
Justus H. Piater, Ph.D.         http://www.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~piater/
Institut Montefiore, B28        Phone: +32-4-366-2279
Université de Liège, Belgium    Fax:   +32-4-366-2620



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Re: Newbie Questions

Bruce D'Arcus-3
Hi Justus,

On 5/27/05, Justus Piater <[hidden email]> wrote:

> - The citation processor should permit processor-independent document
>   encoding. RefDB doesn't; its citation encoding is specific to RefDB,
>   in both compact and full syntax. XBiblio does, doesn't it?

It does.  It's just standard DocBook (NG).

> - How are grammar-sensitive references handled, e.g. if I cite Walsh
>   (2005) and my own work (Piater, 2005)? In DocBook, I could imagine
>   using the role attribute for this, but I'm not sure about other input
>   languages.

Use the xrefstyle attribute on the db:biblioref element.  I currently
use a value of "year" for the first one, and hand-code the author name
in the text.  We can discuss the other option if you like.
 
> - Does XBiblio support multiple reference lists within the same
>   document?

Not yet. I'll figure that out once I get all the base functionality
working.  I'm getting close.

>   This prevents simple linking to citation keys as XML ID
>   values; one would have to resort to auto-generated IDs and/or more
>   general XPointer links to non-ID attributes.

Why?

Bruce


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Re: Newbie Questions

Justus Piater
Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 06:53:47
-0400:

>>   This prevents simple linking to citation keys as XML ID
>>   values; one would have to resort to auto-generated IDs and/or more
>>   general XPointer links to non-ID attributes.
>
> Why?

Because XML IDs must be unique within a document, and you might want
to include the same reference in more than one reference list.

Justus

--
Justus H. Piater, Ph.D.         http://www.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~piater/
Institut Montefiore, B28        Phone: +32-4-366-2279
Université de Liège, Belgium    Fax:   +32-4-366-2620



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Re: Newbie Questions

Bruce D'Arcus-3
On May 27, 2005, at 8:47 AM, Justus Piater wrote:

> Because XML IDs must be unique within a document, and you might want
> to include the same reference in more than one reference list.

I hadn't thought about that.  I guess if you had a multi-chapter book
with different authors, they could indeed have duplicate references.

However, isn't this just an abstract concern?  We're not dealing with
DTDs (schemas don't validate id/idrefs).  And the MODS records would
only be duplicated in memory; not in any real document.

The above isn't really a rhetorical question: I'm not sure how to deal
with this practically.  I still need to figure out how to configure
reference grouping in CSL.

Bruce



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Re: Newbie Questions

Justus Piater
Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 09:07:35
-0400:

> On May 27, 2005, at 8:47 AM, Justus Piater wrote:
>
>> Because XML IDs must be unique within a document, and you might want
>> to include the same reference in more than one reference list.
>
> However, isn't this just an abstract concern?

No, it's a cross-linking issue. If you turn citations into hyperlinks,
and you have identical references in different chapters, which one do
you link to?

It seems to me that the back-end XSLT will have to identify, for a
given citation, the "closest following" matching refentry (assuming
they always "follow"...), attach a unique attribute to it, and link
the citation to that instead of the citation key.

Justus

--
Justus H. Piater, Ph.D.         http://www.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~piater/
Institut Montefiore, B28        Phone: +32-4-366-2279
Université de Liège, Belgium    Fax:   +32-4-366-2620



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Re: Newbie Questions

Bruce D'Arcus-3
On May 27, 2005, at 10:07 AM, Justus Piater wrote:

> No, it's a cross-linking issue. If you turn citations into hyperlinks,
> and you have identical references in different chapters, which one do
> you link to?

Oh, you mean in the output docs?  Am in a hurry, but I don't think
that's a problem.  Just append a prefix (like id="chapter1+doe99a").

Would that work?

Bruce



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Re: Newbie Questions

Justus Piater
Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote on Fri, 27 May 2005 11:24:39
-0400:

> Oh, you mean in the output docs?  Am in a hurry, but I don't think
> that's a problem.  Just append a prefix (like id="chapter1+doe99a").

Yeah, that's what I had in mind. (Complicated path toward a simple
solution...)

Justus

--
Justus H. Piater, Ph.D.         http://www.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~piater/
Institut Montefiore, B28        Phone: +32-4-366-2279
Université de Liège, Belgium    Fax:   +32-4-366-2620



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Re: Newbie Questions

Bruce D'Arcus-3
In reply to this post by Justus Piater
On May 27, 2005, at 4:10 AM, Justus Piater wrote:

> - How are grammar-sensitive references handled, e.g. if I cite Walsh
>   (2005) and my own work (Piater, 2005)?

BTW, I've considered adding a function that can do this automatically.

Will worry about it later though.

Bruce