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Proposal: Retire duplicate "Harvard" styles harvard1.csl & harvard7de.csl

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Proposal: Retire duplicate "Harvard" styles harvard1.csl & harvard7de.csl

Nick Bart
Following up from a discussion at https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/42317/duplicate-harvard-styles/, I’d like to propose removing two duplicate "Harvard" styles
from the github and Zotero CSL style file repositories:

harvard1.csl is a almost-duplicate of harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl; both are based on http://libweb.anglia.ac.uk/referencing/harvard.htm,

harvard7de.csl (German) is a almost-duplicate of harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl; both are based on
http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/app/download/6167762784/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf?t=1410296308 resp. http://www.institut-praxisforschung.ch/Portals/0/Jonas/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf (the second link is dead, redirecting to http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/, so this is/was clearly the same guide).

My proposal  is to keep only those with the more specific style names - harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl and harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl - and to remove harvard1.csl and harvard7de.csl entirely.

Huge bonus: Getting rid of styles with overly generic names such as harvard1.csl and harvard7de.csl would reinforce the important message that there is no such thing as a single, official Harvard style, removing a very common source of confusion among students and, sadly enough, librarians and certain brands of commercial library and referencing software, too. See also http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/primer.html#author-date-author-styles: “Note that many style guides use the confusing term “Harvard” to refer to author-date formats, even though most of these styles have no connection to Harvard University. There is also no such thing as a single official “Harvard” style.”

Any platforms where harvard1 seems popular would have to inform their users that they should switch to harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl (or some other author-date style) instead.

Are there any objections?

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Re: Proposal: Retire duplicate "Harvard" styles harvard1.csl & harvard7de.csl

Sebastian Karcher
To follow up on this--as I told Nick in the Zotero thread, our biggest concern here is Mendeley and any other product that uses Harvard1 as one of the default styles. We'd obviously include a redirect in the renamed-styles.json, but the formatting of the style would change for users. So we'd particularly want to hear from the reference managers here. From a purely CSL perspective, we'd definitely want to go ahead and remove those styles.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 5:46 AM, Nick Bart <[hidden email]> wrote:
Following up from a discussion at https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/42317/duplicate-harvard-styles/, I’d like to propose removing two duplicate "Harvard" styles
from the github and Zotero CSL style file repositories:

harvard1.csl is a almost-duplicate of harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl; both are based on http://libweb.anglia.ac.uk/referencing/harvard.htm,

harvard7de.csl (German) is a almost-duplicate of harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl; both are based on
http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/app/download/6167762784/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf?t=1410296308 resp. http://www.institut-praxisforschung.ch/Portals/0/Jonas/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf (the second link is dead, redirecting to http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/, so this is/was clearly the same guide).

My proposal  is to keep only those with the more specific style names - harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl and harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl - and to remove harvard1.csl and harvard7de.csl entirely.

Huge bonus: Getting rid of styles with overly generic names such as harvard1.csl and harvard7de.csl would reinforce the important message that there is no such thing as a single, official Harvard style, removing a very common source of confusion among students and, sadly enough, librarians and certain brands of commercial library and referencing software, too. See also http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/primer.html#author-date-author-styles: “Note that many style guides use the confusing term “Harvard” to refer to author-date formats, even though most of these styles have no connection to Harvard University. There is also no such thing as a single official “Harvard” style.”

Any platforms where harvard1 seems popular would have to inform their users that they should switch to harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl (or some other author-date style) instead.

Are there any objections?

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Northwestern University

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Re: Proposal: Retire duplicate "Harvard" styles harvard1.csl & harvard7de.csl

Carles Pina
Hi,

I had a quick look: harvard1.csl is the second most used style by
Mendeley users (data from 1 or 2 years but I don't expect this to
change much).

Very sadly at Mendeley we are not using the renamed-styles.json for
what I remember. I'll open a ticket but I'm not sure when this could
be done.
Having harvard1.csl a dependent style from
harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl would be a good user experience
for us - but not much correct for the CSL project.

On 13 September 2015 at 19:11, Sebastian Karcher
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> To follow up on this--as I told Nick in the Zotero thread, our biggest
> concern here is Mendeley and any other product that uses Harvard1 as one of
> the default styles. We'd obviously include a redirect in the
> renamed-styles.json, but the formatting of the style would change for users.
> So we'd particularly want to hear from the reference managers here. From a
> purely CSL perspective, we'd definitely want to go ahead and remove those
> styles.
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 5:46 AM, Nick Bart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Following up from a discussion at
>> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/42317/duplicate-harvard-styles/, I’d
>> like to propose removing two duplicate "Harvard" styles
>> from the github and Zotero CSL style file repositories:
>>
>> harvard1.csl is a almost-duplicate of
>> harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl; both are based on
>> http://libweb.anglia.ac.uk/referencing/harvard.htm,
>>
>> harvard7de.csl (German) is a almost-duplicate of
>> harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl; both are based on
>>
>> http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/app/download/6167762784/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf?t=1410296308
>> resp.
>> http://www.institut-praxisforschung.ch/Portals/0/Jonas/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf
>> (the second link is dead, redirecting to
>> http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/, so this is/was clearly the same
>> guide).
>>
>> My proposal  is to keep only those with the more specific style names -
>> harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl and
>> harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl - and to remove harvard1.csl and
>> harvard7de.csl entirely.
>>
>> Huge bonus: Getting rid of styles with overly generic names such as
>> harvard1.csl and harvard7de.csl would reinforce the important message that
>> there is no such thing as a single, official Harvard style, removing a very
>> common source of confusion among students and, sadly enough, librarians and
>> certain brands of commercial library and referencing software, too. See also
>> http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/primer.html#author-date-author-styles:
>> “Note that many style guides use the confusing term “Harvard” to refer to
>> author-date formats, even though most of these styles have no connection to
>> Harvard University. There is also no such thing as a single official
>> “Harvard” style.”
>>
>> Any platforms where harvard1 seems popular would have to inform their
>> users that they should switch to harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl (or
>> some other author-date style) instead.
>>
>> Are there any objections?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Karcher, PhD
> Department of Political Science
> Northwestern University
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> xbiblio-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>



--
Carles Pina | Software Engineer
http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/Carles-Pina/

Mendeley Limited | London, UK | www.mendeley.com
Registered in England and Wales | Company Number 6419015

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Re: Proposal: Retire duplicate "Harvard" styles harvard1.csl & harvard7de.csl

Sebastian Karcher
Hi Carles and others,

I'm coming back to this now, partly because we're getting a ton of "error" reports from Mendeley users about Harvard1... I'd love for it to be removed as a default option for Mendeley entirely, since people misunderstand this so badly. If you want a Harvard default style, you could either go with Cite them Right or, as Zotero does, with elsevier-harvard.

That's not actually why I'm writing, though. I'd like to go ahead and make the change you propose above, i.e. make Harvard1 a dependent style, but unless there are objections, I'd like to map it to harvard-cite-them-right, which is the closes we have to a "standard" among UK Harvards and our style is in very good shape, better than e.g. the Anglia-Ruskin one. The downside is that the guide isn't publicly available (though I own a copy).

Absent any objections, I'll do this next weekend. (And please do consider removing Harvard1 as a default...)

Sebastian

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 5:29 AM, Carles Pina <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I had a quick look: harvard1.csl is the second most used style by
Mendeley users (data from 1 or 2 years but I don't expect this to
change much).

Very sadly at Mendeley we are not using the renamed-styles.json for
what I remember. I'll open a ticket but I'm not sure when this could
be done.
Having harvard1.csl a dependent style from
harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl would be a good user experience
for us - but not much correct for the CSL project.

On 13 September 2015 at 19:11, Sebastian Karcher
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> To follow up on this--as I told Nick in the Zotero thread, our biggest
> concern here is Mendeley and any other product that uses Harvard1 as one of
> the default styles. We'd obviously include a redirect in the
> renamed-styles.json, but the formatting of the style would change for users.
> So we'd particularly want to hear from the reference managers here. From a
> purely CSL perspective, we'd definitely want to go ahead and remove those
> styles.
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 5:46 AM, Nick Bart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Following up from a discussion at
>> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/42317/duplicate-harvard-styles/, I’d
>> like to propose removing two duplicate "Harvard" styles
>> from the github and Zotero CSL style file repositories:
>>
>> harvard1.csl is a almost-duplicate of
>> harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl; both are based on
>> http://libweb.anglia.ac.uk/referencing/harvard.htm,
>>
>> harvard7de.csl (German) is a almost-duplicate of
>> harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl; both are based on
>>
>> http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/app/download/6167762784/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf?t=1410296308
>> resp.
>> http://www.institut-praxisforschung.ch/Portals/0/Jonas/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf
>> (the second link is dead, redirecting to
>> http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/, so this is/was clearly the same
>> guide).
>>
>> My proposal  is to keep only those with the more specific style names -
>> harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl and
>> harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl - and to remove harvard1.csl and
>> harvard7de.csl entirely.
>>
>> Huge bonus: Getting rid of styles with overly generic names such as
>> harvard1.csl and harvard7de.csl would reinforce the important message that
>> there is no such thing as a single, official Harvard style, removing a very
>> common source of confusion among students and, sadly enough, librarians and
>> certain brands of commercial library and referencing software, too. See also
>> http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/primer.html#author-date-author-styles:
>> “Note that many style guides use the confusing term “Harvard” to refer to
>> author-date formats, even though most of these styles have no connection to
>> Harvard University. There is also no such thing as a single official
>> “Harvard” style.”
>>
>> Any platforms where harvard1 seems popular would have to inform their
>> users that they should switch to harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl (or
>> some other author-date style) instead.
>>
>> Are there any objections?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Karcher, PhD
> Department of Political Science
> Northwestern University
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> xbiblio-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>



--
Carles Pina | Software Engineer
http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/Carles-Pina/

Mendeley Limited | London, UK | www.mendeley.com
Registered in England and Wales | Company Number 6419015

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--
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www.sebastiankarcher.com

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Re: Proposal: Retire duplicate "Harvard" styles harvard1.csl & harvard7de.csl

Carles Pina
Hello,

Making harvard1 a dependent style on the other one works for us, thank you!


On 25 January 2016 at 04:24, Sebastian Karcher <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Carles and others,

I'm coming back to this now, partly because we're getting a ton of "error" reports from Mendeley users about Harvard1... I'd love for it to be removed as a default option for Mendeley entirely, since people misunderstand this so badly. If you want a Harvard default style, you could either go with Cite them Right or, as Zotero does, with elsevier-harvard.

That's not actually why I'm writing, though. I'd like to go ahead and make the change you propose above, i.e. make Harvard1 a dependent style, but unless there are objections, I'd like to map it to harvard-cite-them-right, which is the closes we have to a "standard" among UK Harvards and our style is in very good shape, better than e.g. the Anglia-Ruskin one. The downside is that the guide isn't publicly available (though I own a copy).

Absent any objections, I'll do this next weekend. (And please do consider removing Harvard1 as a default...)

Sebastian

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 5:29 AM, Carles Pina <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I had a quick look: harvard1.csl is the second most used style by
Mendeley users (data from 1 or 2 years but I don't expect this to
change much).

Very sadly at Mendeley we are not using the renamed-styles.json for
what I remember. I'll open a ticket but I'm not sure when this could
be done.
Having harvard1.csl a dependent style from
harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl would be a good user experience
for us - but not much correct for the CSL project.

On 13 September 2015 at 19:11, Sebastian Karcher
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> To follow up on this--as I told Nick in the Zotero thread, our biggest
> concern here is Mendeley and any other product that uses Harvard1 as one of
> the default styles. We'd obviously include a redirect in the
> renamed-styles.json, but the formatting of the style would change for users.
> So we'd particularly want to hear from the reference managers here. From a
> purely CSL perspective, we'd definitely want to go ahead and remove those
> styles.
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 5:46 AM, Nick Bart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Following up from a discussion at
>> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/42317/duplicate-harvard-styles/, I’d
>> like to propose removing two duplicate "Harvard" styles
>> from the github and Zotero CSL style file repositories:
>>
>> harvard1.csl is a almost-duplicate of
>> harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl; both are based on
>> http://libweb.anglia.ac.uk/referencing/harvard.htm,
>>
>> harvard7de.csl (German) is a almost-duplicate of
>> harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl; both are based on
>>
>> http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/app/download/6167762784/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf?t=1410296308
>> resp.
>> http://www.institut-praxisforschung.ch/Portals/0/Jonas/Harvard-Zitierweise.pdf
>> (the second link is dead, redirecting to
>> http://www.institut-praxisforschung.com/, so this is/was clearly the same
>> guide).
>>
>> My proposal  is to keep only those with the more specific style names -
>> harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl and
>> harvard-institut-fur-praxisforschung-de.csl - and to remove harvard1.csl and
>> harvard7de.csl entirely.
>>
>> Huge bonus: Getting rid of styles with overly generic names such as
>> harvard1.csl and harvard7de.csl would reinforce the important message that
>> there is no such thing as a single, official Harvard style, removing a very
>> common source of confusion among students and, sadly enough, librarians and
>> certain brands of commercial library and referencing software, too. See also
>> http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/primer.html#author-date-author-styles:
>> “Note that many style guides use the confusing term “Harvard” to refer to
>> author-date formats, even though most of these styles have no connection to
>> Harvard University. There is also no such thing as a single official
>> “Harvard” style.”
>>
>> Any platforms where harvard1 seems popular would have to inform their
>> users that they should switch to harvard-anglia-ruskin-university.csl (or
>> some other author-date style) instead.
>>
>> Are there any objections?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xbiblio-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Karcher, PhD
> Department of Political Science
> Northwestern University
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> xbiblio-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
>



--
Carles Pina | Software Engineer
http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/Carles-Pina/

Mendeley Limited | London, UK | www.mendeley.com
Registered in England and Wales | Company Number 6419015

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www.sebastiankarcher.com

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