citation ids?

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citation ids?

Bruce D'Arcus
       
I just posted something on my blog about citation/record ids, which is  
an issue that I think is going to become increasingly important.

http://netapps.muohio.edu/blogs/darcusb/darcusb/archives/2004/11/27/ 
citation-ids

Comments?

Bruce



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[Refdb-users] citation ids?

Markus Hoenicka
Just a random example from Pubmed from our friends devoted to chemistry:
Studt2004LewisAdductsoftheSide-OnEnd-OnDinitrogen-BridgedComplex[{(NPN)Ta}(2)(mu-H)(2)(mu-eta(1):eta(2)-N(2))]withAlMe(3),GaMe(3),andB(C(6)F(5))(3):Synthesis,Structure,andSpectroscopicProperties

This may look a little contrived but this was actually the first hit
I've got from a Pubmed query for "nitrogen". There are certainly
limits to the usability of including the title.

regards,
Markus

Bruce D'Arcus writes:
 >
 > I just posted something on my blog about citation/record ids, which is  
 > an issue that I think is going to become increasingly important.
 >
 > http://netapps.muohio.edu/blogs/darcusb/darcusb/archives/2004/11/27/ 
 > citation-ids
 >
 > Comments?
 >
 > Bruce
 >

--
Markus Hoenicka
[hidden email]
(Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka")
http://www.mhoenicka.de



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Re: [Refdb-users] citation ids?

Bruce D'Arcus
On Nov 27, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Markus Hoenicka wrote:

> Just a random example from Pubmed from our friends devoted to  
> chemistry:
> Studt2004LewisAdductsoftheSide-OnEnd-OnDinitrogen-
> BridgedComplex[{(NPN)Ta}(2)(mu-H)(2)(mu-eta(1):eta(2)-
> N(2))]withAlMe(3),GaMe(3),andB(C(6)F(5))(3):
> Synthesis,Structure,andSpectroscopicProperties
>
> This may look a little contrived but this was actually the first hit
> I've got from a Pubmed query for "nitrogen". There are certainly
> limits to the usability of including the title.

Yeah, I thought of that.  OTOH, you could always just grab the first  
four words of a title.

Blog comments pointed out other issues, though.  I really don't think  
there's an ideal way; that all have compromises.  Still, I wonder if a  
consensus could emerge about best practical approach?

Bruce



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Re: [Bibliophile-development] Re: [Refdb-users] citation ids?

Christian Boulanger (Bibliograph Development)
What about internationalization issues? Would the title be in original
language (for example, chinese letters)?

Christian


Bruce D'Arcus wrote:

>
> On Nov 27, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Markus Hoenicka wrote:
>
>> Just a random example from Pubmed from our friends devoted to  
>> chemistry:
>> Studt2004LewisAdductsoftheSide-OnEnd-OnDinitrogen-
>> BridgedComplex[{(NPN)Ta}(2)(mu-H)(2)(mu-eta(1):eta(2)-
>> N(2))]withAlMe(3),GaMe(3),andB(C(6)F(5))(3):
>> Synthesis,Structure,andSpectroscopicProperties
>>
>> This may look a little contrived but this was actually the first hit
>> I've got from a Pubmed query for "nitrogen". There are certainly
>> limits to the usability of including the title.
>
>
> Yeah, I thought of that.  OTOH, you could always just grab the first  
> four words of a title.
>
> Blog comments pointed out other issues, though.  I really don't think  
> there's an ideal way; that all have compromises.  Still, I wonder if
> a  consensus could emerge about best practical approach?
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
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Re: [Bibliophile-development] citation ids?

Morbus Iff
In reply to this post by Bruce D'Arcus
> I just posted something on my blog about citation/record ids, which is  
> an issue that I think is going to become increasingly important.

I've mentioned this before, but I don't think /any/ attempt to create an
ID that has embedded meaning will work, because any attempt to do that
in the past has failed or clashed (ISBNs, UPCs, etc.). I also don't want
IDs that are more than 60 characters long, as they're inevitably loaded
in a URL, and that makes the URL difficult to pass around.

--
Morbus Iff ( you, me, eropuri? aawwwwwWWWw yYeahahhHHAhhh )
Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus


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Re: [Bibliophile-development] citation ids?

Bruce D'Arcus
On Nov 29, 2004, at 9:06 AM, Morbus Iff wrote:

> I've mentioned this before, but I don't think /any/ attempt to create
> an ID that has embedded meaning will work, because any attempt to do
> that in the past has failed or clashed (ISBNs, UPCs, etc.). I also
> don't want IDs that are more than 60 characters long, as they're
> inevitably loaded in a URL, and that makes the URL difficult to pass
> around.

This is a good point, particularly considering that my current
stylesheets grab a complete bibliography collection with a single (very
long!) url!

Still, I don't know how a long string of numbers generated by
individual dbs helps though.

Documents have citations coded like:

        <citation><biblioref linkend="some-citation-id"/></citation>

This is how they get coded in DocBook, it's how they will get coded in
OpenOffice, and if I have my way, Word as well (you can embed the same
citation schema that is going in OOo in WordML).

So how do we make this work in an internet-enabled collaborative
context?

I got a link to this article about how CiteSeer handles this stuff:

        http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1031171.1031275

Someone else posted a comment on the blog about a system that yields
IDs like:

Gilchrist:NAMS-36-9-1199
Doe:EW-99

The acronyms are for titles: in the first case for an academic journal,
and in the second a book.  The acronym is constructed by taking up to
the first four words (other than "the", "a", "of" and so forth) of the
title.  I like this approach myself.

In Endnote, BTW, there are two fields: one is the database ID, and the
other is called "label."  People who prefer the citekey approach
typically use that for their citations instead of db ID.

Bruce



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Re: [Bibliophile-development] citation ids?

Morbus Iff
> Still, I don't know how a long string of numbers
 > generated by individual dbs helps though.

Someone may want to poke around in the RDF/SW world for this one. They
have very similar problems: if I, myself, give me a URI of dc:morbusiff,
there is nothing stopping another person, unknown to be, calling me
dc:morbus_iff in their application. How could the RDF/SW ever function
with these statements that refer to the same thing, only with different
IDs? The only relevant response I got back was a conversion router: feed
it one ID, and get back a list of all relevant IDs that are equivalent,
very similar to the OCLC's xISBN service:

  http://www.oclc.org/research/projects/xisbn/default.htm

--
Morbus Iff ( evil is my sour flavor )
Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus


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Re: [libdb-develop] Re: [Bibliophile-development] citation ids?

arhyno
In reply to this post by Bruce D'Arcus
Bruce writes:

"So how do we make this work in an internet-enabled collaborative
context?"

and I wonder about candidates for hosting a globally accessible and low
barrier registry to avoid clashing namespaces. I have been thinking about
this in terms of trust networks and the use of FOAF (Friend Of A Friend),
and have been turning to the Open Directory Project (ODP)
<http://dmoz.org> for  subject URIs (see example at the end). The CiteSeer
project is pretty amazing, and is very citation-centric, but they have
been dealing with a lot of system load issues. I also wonder if OCLC might
also be a possibility, they do something like this for Names already, for
example: <http://errol.oclc.org/laf/nr2003-18130.html>.

art
---
<rdf:RDF
xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
xmlns:rdfs="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"
xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"
xmlns:trust="http://www.perceive.net/schemas/20020725/trust#">

<foaf:Person>
<foaf:nick>morbus</foaf:nick>

<trust:trustsHighly>
<foaf:Person rdf:about="#Morbus_Iff">

<rdfs:subject
rdf:resource="http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Perl/" />
</foaf:Person>
</trust:trustsHighly>

</foaf:Person>
</rdf:RDF>


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Re: [libdb-develop] Re: [Bibliophile-development] citation ids?

Bruce D'Arcus
Can I ask that people post further thoughts on the blog?  I'm trying to  
get people from different projects involved in the discussion, and it's  
actually been helpful.

On that, I just had an idea in response to one of those comments  
(thanks Rick!), which is to use existing ids along with the info  
scheme.  E.g. "info:lccn/n78089035".  See:  
http://info-uri.info/registry/docs/misc/faq.html.

So if I'm citing a book, I might do:

        <citation><biblioref linkend="info:lccn/n78089035"/></citation>

.. if a journal article with a DOI:

        <citation><biblioref linkend="info:doi/10.1000.10/12345"/></citation>

I think I like this!  AFAIK, it should be fairly easy to process with  
XSLT; without any significant performance penalty (at least I hope!).

Anyway, blog entry is at:

        http://netapps.muohio.edu/blogs/darcusb/darcusb/archives/2004/11/27/ 
citation-ids

Bruce



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